2-10 spread limit texas holdem poker hand

[Heywood]

Spread limit is different than structured limit. In a $3-$6 structure limit game you can bet and raise in only $3 increments before the flop and on the flop. On the turn and river you can bet and raise in $6 increments. In $2-$10 spread limit you can bet/raise anywhere from $2 to $10 every street.

I'm playing in a $2-$10 spread limit game and this weird hand comes up. Everyone's cards are dealt face down. But the guy across the table fumble fists his cards and one ends up on the table face up. Its a 4 of diamonds. The floor rules the card plays. A couple of players call the $2 blind including the player with the 4 of diamonds. I'm dealt 88 on the button.

I raise to $6 and the blinds fold.
The two limpers call. Figure $18 in the pot after the rake.
Flop comes Qh 7h 4s.
First to act exclaims he can beat a pair of 4s and bets $5. The guy with the 4 of diamonds exposed(who at least has a pair) calls $5.

In hindsight I should have raised to $12 before the flop but I didn't. What should I do here given the way I played it so far?

[Jackalope]

Fold.

Not even close.

And yeah, raising to $6 preflop with limpers is very bad.

[SteelCurtain]

With 8's raising the blinds by 600% preflop wasn't going to drastically change the outcome (in hindsight). You want 1 or 2 players against your middle pair. Unless your goal was to buy it, but the risk-reward for that isn't great---if you fail then you're in the same boat with a middle pair, ostensibly behind with a Queen on the flop.

I'd raise the max depending on your chip count. $10, about a third of the pot--represent a queen. You'll find out some good information about your guy with the 4. He could be rocking 2 pair or trips. The guy to your left is already representing 7 or Q, you need to figure out which. It's all about information. You are obviously in a good position, acting last, but your chip stack is what it's all about here. How much can you pay for information?

[Jackalope]

What exactly do you think he's representing with a flop raise over a bettor and a caller, after that milquetoast $6 preflop raise? Aces? No way. A set? On that dry board? I don't think so.

A queen isn't folding that flop to a max raise like ever, and I'd be very concerned that the dude with the 4 flopped a set.

Yeah, he's got position. He can use it to find a better spot to put his money in.

[SteelCurtain]

This is why I was talking about his chip count. If he can afford to see one more card in order to flesh out what's really going on, then that's the way to do it.

Limpers can be dangerous, and people playing in a $2-$10 spread limit game are less likely to be full of donkeys. But the middling bet out of the guy to his left makes me think he flopped the 7. I would be most worried about the 4, the caller. I would be worried about two pair.

You represent the Queen you can flesh out a guy with Queen-rag with a max bet. The position allows you to bet with nothing else at risk but the bet.

My point was that if you can afford to spend $10 on information, the payoff could be worth it.

[Jackalope]

Could be, but my experience with this sort of game is that both players call a raise in that spot about 100% of the time. Maybe it's different out there, but around here, low limit games are chock full of donks. A pair of fours peels, so do sevens, and a Q or a set are never folding.

I suppose if they both check to you on the turn it might be worth the $10, but I personally look for a far better spot with that hand and that action in a spread limit game.

[Heywood]

Fold.

Not even close.

And yeah, raising to $6 preflop with limpers is very bad.

Small raises in late position against many limpers with speculative hands are often not bad plays in this game. Take 9c8c against the blinds and 3 limpers. Calling on the button leaves the pot at $11. If I flop a flush draw, I might have to fold it to a $10 bet. By making a small raise preflop, I can manipulate the size of the pot so that I have proper odds to call a max bet if I flop a drawing hand.

[Jackalope]

Fold.

Not even close.

And yeah, raising to $6 preflop with limpers is very bad.

Small raises in late position against many limpers with speculative hands are often not bad plays in this game. Take 9c8c against the blinds and 3 limpers. Calling on the button leaves the pot at $11. If I flop a flush draw, I might have to fold it to a $10 bet. By making a small raise preflop, I can manipulate the size of the pot so that I have proper odds to call a max bet if I flop a drawing hand.

How many draws do you think you're going to flop with a pair of eights, Heywood? If you had a speculative hand, you'd have a point. You don't. You have a hand that plays vbest heads up or against a lot of players. Playing it against two for a small raise is bad bad bad.

[Heywood]

Small raises in late position against many limpers with speculative hands are often not bad plays in this game. Take 9c8c against the blinds and 3 limpers. Calling on the button leaves the pot at $11. If I flop a flush draw, I might have to fold it to a $10 bet. By making a small raise preflop, I can manipulate the size of the pot so that I have proper odds to call a max bet if I flop a drawing hand.

How many draws do you think you're going to flop with a pair of eights, Heywood? If you had a speculative hand, you'd have a point. You don't. You have a hand that plays vbest heads up or against a lot of players. Playing it against two for a small raise is bad bad bad.

I agree a small raise with a pair of 8s was mistake. I was thinking about a previous hand(which was a huge kill pot) where I lost with flopped big set to runner-runner flush. I was shuffling my chips and just splashed the pot with what was in my hand. I thought you were talking about small raises against limpers in general.

I folded by the way, I would probably need to call 3 bets to see a show down only to find I was beat all along or got drawn out on was my rationale. The guy who exclaimed he could beat a pair of 4s won the hand with pocket 5s. The guy next to me told me he thought I should have made it $15....which is why I am still thinking about this hand.

[SteelCurtain]

Could be, but my experience with this sort of game is that both players call a raise in that spot about 100% of the time. Maybe it's different out there, but around here, low limit games are chock full of donks. A pair of fours peels, so do sevens, and a Q or a set are never folding.

I suppose if they both check to you on the turn it might be worth the $10, but I personally look for a far better spot with that hand and that action in a spread limit game.

I don't play too many games with higher limits than $10, and I don't consider myself a donkey. (not saying that you said everyone who plays in low limit games is, mind you) Most donkey games are the $1-$2 No lnmit games. I see those all the time. A $10 limit game, in my experience, consists of far fewer asshats.

That being said, it also depends on the venue and how well you read these players. The more I think about it, the more I attributed prior experiences to these players that I am jumping in one hand out of context. It is really difficult to talk about a hand of poker with no real context.