What is the controversy surrounding #takeaknee

[Thumpalumpacus]

I wasn't asking you for proof, AM, but for an explanation of why those stats might be that way.

Your reply, essentially, is that there is no oppression. I think that's a purblind position. I had thought you were a more thoughtful person, but hey, I've been wrong before. You can apparently claim there's no oppression without supporting that claim, even as you brush away the mountains and mountains of evidence for oppression because a law got passed fifty years ago.

It's a facile and conveniently vapid point on your part which no doubt helps you sleep well.

Me, I think you speak from the luxury of whiteness when you say stupid shit like "there is no oppression". It marks you as a simple thinker who doesn't question his own precepts.

[John V]

I wasn't asking you for proof, AM, but for an explanation of why those stats might be that way.

And you got at least one, but kept pretending as if I hadn't given anything.

Your reply, essentially, is that there is no oppression. I think that's a purblind position. I had thought you were a more thoughtful person, but hey, I've been wrong before. You can apparently claim there's no oppression without supporting that claim, even as you brush away the mountains and mountains of evidence for oppression because a law got passed fifty years ago.

Earlier you said you'd be happy to give me one of these mountains. Do so, while considering the definition of "oppression," and I'll consider it.

It's a facile and conveniently vapid point on your part which no doubt helps you sleep well.

Me, I think you speak from the luxury of whiteness when you say stupid shit like "there is no oppression". It marks you as a simple thinker who doesn't question his own precepts.

Again, present the evidence and I'll look at it.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The one analysis you presented, invoking black families, may be true in some instances. I notice that this one potential cause you've presented just happens to avoid addressing any white involvement in black difficulties. What a coincidence!

Did you ever wonder why so many black fathers are absent?

[John V]

The one analysis you presented, invoking black families, may be true in some instances.

Yep.

I notice that this one potential cause you've presented just happens to avoid addressing any white involvement in black difficulties. What a coincidence!

Did you notice that that point came from a black man?

Did you ever wonder why so many black fathers are absent?

Yes. Have you? Why are you always asking me questions instead of making specific points yourself? Should be pretty easy to pull things from your mountains...

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm asking you questions because my goal here is not your education (I've already seen how difficult that be) but to let you demonstrate yourself how shallow your understanding is.

I'm on my phone right now, anyway, which makes linking pretty difficult. If I have the time and inclination I'll throw some stuff up later.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Did you ever wonder why so many black fathers are absent?

The problem is not unique to African-Americans. Many people or all races aren't getting married because they do not see the advantages of doing so. Many men don't want the responsibility for a family. And many women chose not to marry the fathers because then they have clear custody of the children. Personal choices matter. Culture matters. It just so happens that the consequences of poor choices and destructive cultural influences are magnified by poverty. At the same time, America is a country in which grit, intelligence, and no small amount of luck allow people to seize opportunities unavailable in most of the world.

To wit, here is one of the most powerful statements I have ever read about just that:

Open Letter to Tanisha Coates

It isn't enough to say that just because there are demographic disparities, therefore...(x) You have to show that any factor you believe is casually responsible significantly contributes to the problem. White men are disproportionately committing suicide. Blacks are disproportionately represented in professional sports. Russians are disproportionately represented in chess. Jews in entertainment. Asians in academic achievement. Statistically, tall people, regardless of race do better on most success metrics than their shorter peers. And even if their are statistical disparities, it does not absolve any individual from doing what they can, with what they have, where they are.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Did you ever wonder why so many black fathers are absent?

The problem is not unique to African-Americans. Many people or all races aren't getting married because they do not see the advantages of doing so. Many men don't want the responsibility for a family. And many women chose not to marry the fathers because then they have clear custody of the children. Personal choices matter. Culture matters. It just so happens that the consequences of poor choices and destructive cultural influences are magnified by poverty. At the same time, America is a country in which grit, intelligence, and no small amount of luck allow people to seize opportunities unavailable in most of the world.

To wit, here is one of the most powerful statements I have ever read about just that:

Open Letter to Tanisha Coates

It isn't enough to say that just because there are demographic disparities, therefore...(x) You have to show that any factor you believe is casually responsible significantly contributes to the problem. White men are disproportionately committing suicide. Blacks are disproportionately represented in professional sports. Russians are disproportionately represented in chess. Jews in entertainment. Asians in academic achievement. Statistically, tall people, regardless of race do better on most success metrics than their shorter peers. And even if their are statistical disparities, it does not absolve any individual from doing what they can, with what they have, where they are.

AM was specifically appealing to broken homes in the black community as one possible explanation for the statistical aberrances we see be race here in America. Perhaps your post is better directed at him?

I'm well aware that such a complex issue is almost certainly multivariate.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I’m sure there are multiple factors at play: class, education, culture, personal choices, family structures, etc. To focus only on personal choices and culture would be to blame the victim. To focus only on class and education is to ignore individual agency. Regardless of circumstances, I cannot fathom how anyone living in the United States of America can cry about oppression when they live in a country that abounds in opportunities. No one here is clamoring to get into Mexico to find a job. When our poor people live in air-conditioned apartments, with refrigerators, and televisions, while the rest of the world lives on less than $10 a day, claims of oppression ring hollow.

Thanks for the daily joke.  It was pathetic but a joke anyway.

[Minimalist]

lol, you don't think that definition is what minorities in America have to deal with?

No

Really?

Really. The Civil Rights Act was passed more than 50 years ago.

Look, I'll be happy to give you some information about this.

So why didn't you?

I think I'll drop this conversation with you for now. This admission of yours is more damning than anything I could write about you.

OK. As noted, de jure discrimination, which was oppression, was outlawed over 50 years ago. There still is some de facto discrimination, but in my experience that's been diminishing with each generation. I have minority colleagues and clients who are very successful. The NFL players making this protest are very successful. We just had a black president for 8 years for crying out loud. So, no, I don't see oppression.

Then you are just stupid.  I've suspected that for quite some time anyway.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

@AM

"would you rather be a rich white american or a rich black american"

Most people would rather be the former.. You know, just to be safe(I wonder why) but I want to see you answer this question