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Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
#41
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
Pretty much  Dodgy
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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#42
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
(October 24, 2017 at 3:31 pm)JackRussell Wrote: Mithraism, archaeologically present in Cesearea c. 6 BCE.

Mithridates I, King of Pontus in Asia Minor, in the early 3d century BC.  Mithridates means "Gift of Mithra" so it would seem that in Asia Minor Mithra was a fairly important god long before the Romans made it that far.

The Romans defeated Mithridates VI in the First Mithradatic War between 89-85 BC and Plutarch writes that Pompey's legions came into contact with Mithraism in 67 BC but this makes little sense.  The Romans under Sulla and Lucullus had been deeply involved in Western Asia Minor for a generation before Pompey got there.
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#43
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
I’m starting to realize that you are not going to give anything more that a vague suspicion, likely because that is all there is.

Perhaps we can compare Carriers minions to a mystery religion.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#44
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
He has minions? Any jobs going?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#45
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
(October 24, 2017 at 4:08 pm)JackRussell Wrote:
(October 24, 2017 at 3:54 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Ok... it seems that the consensus is that Mithraism didn't become poplular until about the mid 1st century.    Is this discovery changing that?   Is it now thought to be more extensive earlier?
If I am remembering correctly it is thought to be some speculation of differences between the Mithra found much earlier in Egypt (and of which we know little about, since there isn't written records), and the later Greek mystery religionm which became popular.

Well ideas baby,

strange birth,
redemption and renewal,
death and resurrection.

An idea prevalent around the same time of Messianism.

Accepted by the the Romans,

Prevalent around the Roman world, from my country to Palestine.

Only really died out post Constantine.

Ok... this is a bit choppy (partial sentences and all), but I'm getting the idea a little bit.
Concerning your critieria... 1.) strange birth - This seems to be a little vague. If a leader today, had a strange birth, then would this qualify? 2.) Redemption and renewal - I think that you will find this common to many compelling stories, and is hardly unique to mystery religions. 3.) Death and resurrection - This is a part, that from what I have researched, is often stretched and strained in trying to make a comparison to Christianity.

The problem seems to be, that this theory, is difficult to make a connection with, without some evidence of either change in the group that is said to have borrowed from, or some other strong tie. You had mentioned, an archeological find around the beginning of the first century. I am guessing that this hasn't changed the view that mithra didn't become common in Rome until the mid 1st century. I would agree, that the group was present before we have strong evidence to it (either written or archeological). That it is likely that it didn't just appear suddenly and in force, the moment that we show a strong presence of it in history. However it needs to be shown that it was a strong influence, to make the case that is being attempted. Do you think the archeological find you mentioned shows this kind of presence at that time? It does seem that there is some indication that Mithraism started from the Roman military (kind of a secret club), but it still seems to be the consensus that it gained momentum after Christianity later in the 1st century.

And I think this brings up another criticism of this view of mythacism. An error of composition. Where all the mystery religions are compiled and treated as one. And whatever part that is needed to claim influence from whatever group is then picked and utilized. However much of the prominence of these regions came after and is even sometimes criticized for being influenced the other way by the story of Christ.

This is what I gather from respected historians anyways, and why this view is held in much regard by the majority of the field.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#46
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
(October 24, 2017 at 8:58 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I’m starting to realize that you are not going to give anything more that a vague suspicion, likely because that is all there is.  

Perhaps we can compare Carriers minions to a mystery religion.

When you stop demanding the historical version of the crocoduck perhaps some rational discussion can be held with you.  Right now, all I see is a jesus freak who desperately wants to deny any hint that the bullshit story you have swallowed is false.
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#47
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
(October 25, 2017 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote:
(October 24, 2017 at 8:58 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I’m starting to realize that you are not going to give anything more that a vague suspicion, likely because that is all there is.  

Perhaps we can compare Carriers minions to a mystery religion.

When you stop demanding the historical version of the crocoduck perhaps some rational discussion can be held with you.  Right now, all I see is a jesus freak who desperately wants to deny any hint that the bullshit story you have swallowed is false.

What is you think I am demanding that is out of line? All I asked for was evidence and reasons.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#48
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
And when provided with such you decline to read it - or you simply could not understand what was written.

I am wondering why I should waste my time with someone who will not even consider the possibility that your bullshit is bullshit.
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#49
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
(October 25, 2017 at 12:53 pm)Minimalist Wrote: And when provided with such you decline to read it - or you simply could not understand what was written.

I am wondering why I should waste my time with someone who will not even consider the possibility that your bullshit is bullshit.

I didn't decline to read it.  And I still don't know what you think it is that I don't understand.  I wasn't the one, who just dismissed the arguments calling the other person's reference a quack.  It's one thing to make an occasional comment, but when your main rebuttal is against the person and not the reasoning or evidence... well that's just a sign of a weak argument.  I am asking you to give more information, so I can look at and evaluate it.  If you wish to explain, engage, and show some sign of thought on the matter, then we can have a discussion.  If you want to focus on people and motives.... well I'll just keep focusing on the subject.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#50
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
There are 26 references in the NKJV to Christianity as a mystery religion in the New Testament.  

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch...ultspp=250
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