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Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
#51
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
[Image: death.jpg]

Road when given clear evidence Christianity is not unique and is just another mystery religion . Which he will simply dismiss as "vague  suspicions "and will continue to do so into Infintium or he will demand unreasonable standards so he can continue to deny .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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#52
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
Quote:I wasn't the one, who just dismissed the arguments calling the other person's reference a quack.

That's because I did not cite a quack.  You did.  See the difference?
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#53
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
Because you referenced a quack and we didn't road .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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#54
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
(October 28, 2017 at 4:46 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: There are 26 references in the NKJV to Christianity as a mystery religion in the New Testament.  

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch...ultspp=250

I don't think that a search for the word mystery is a good way to make this determination.  You can look at "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" and find the word "mystery" used a number of times.

I was looking at the origin of Mithraism in Rome the other day.  It seems that it's main strength as a movement came in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.  Most think it somehow came from the Persian version of Mithra, but are not sure how or exactly when; if it is a version of the Persian religion or a Roman religion, with Persian accents.  

Quote:Mithraism is known almost entirely from physical artifacts and dedicatory inscriptions. In total, over 400 archaeological find-spots related to Mithraism have been uncovered, along with about 1,000 dedicatory inscriptions and 1,150 pieces of sculpture.
There are very few contemporary written sources, and most of those that survive are outsider perspectives. References to Mithraism can be found in the following texts:
  • Plutarch, Life of Pompey 24
  • Porphyry, On the Cave of the Nymphs 6, 15-16, 17-18, 24-25
  • Porphyry, On Abstinence from Animal Foods 4.16
  • Tertullian (c.200), On the Soldier's Crown 15
  • Origen (240s), Against Celsus 6.22
The lack of good written sources on Mithraism is largely due to its status as a mystery religion, in which the meaning of its iconography and rituals was a secret known only to initiates. Insiders did not record details of their religion and outsiders did not know much about it. This obviously makes things difficult for historians, so there is much about Mithraism that is still not known.
http://www.religionfacts.com/mithraism

So, in my view, the description of the mystery religions, is quite a bit different, from your googling the word "mystery" in the Bible (or in Darwin).

However, whether Christianity is accurately described by the term "mystery religion" has nothing to do with the claim that it was inspired by them.  For that they would need to make some sort of connection other than the vague unfalsifiable crap being put forth as history so far.  

It is one of those things, that may sound good on the surface but has little to support it.  Hence most respected historians do not ascribe to it, and it is held by internet amateurs and very few fringe scholars.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man.  - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire.  - Martin Luther
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#55
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
Yeah, that's the ticket......

It's not "whether" christianity can be accurately described as a mystery religion, it -is- accurately described as such.  Proceeding from there, the notion that all of the other mystery religions were significantly influenced by this common cultural theme to produce the category under which they all fall..but that one particular mystery religion wasn't..and just happened to become a textbook example..is too ludicrous to entertain in any attempt to understand the religion in a historical context...regardless of whether or not you find it untenable to consider just because you (and any number of quacks) believe in fairies.

That, in a nutshell, is the difference between anthropology and apologism.

As to the constant reference to "respected historians" not agreeing, let's run with that..explore it a little. If by "respected historians" you mean people who feel that there may have been some person around which hellenic syncretism coalesced with med judaism to form an earlier but not at all recognizable form of christian belief..then yeah, sure. Notice the fairies are still absent, and the historicity of the gospels is in no way advanced. They're positing that some advocate, in that case, helped to create a recognizable mystery religion...which had significant deviance from previous forms of the same and would one day..with further syncretism and political intrigue inc in europe..to what we recognize as christianity today.

But, ofc, that's not who you mean by "respected historians"...you mean quacks who believe in fairies, who believe that the gospels are an AP report from the front. You mean "apologists".
For what it's worth, it seems like I'm too late to bring up this point about his OP: Whether or not it's possible if something can come from nothing, it's clear that God, if he exists, definitely violates that principle: After all, what is the creation of the world but his creating something out of nothing?


-Rev Rye.

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#56
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
The truth of every religion is that they all exist just like Coke and Pepsi compete. Coke comes out with a cherry flavor soda, and not to be outdone Pepsi looks at it, comes up with it's own cherry flavor, changes the recipe a and color of the can. 

Buddhism is really a rejection of India's religions just like Christianity was a rejection of the Jewish religions. 

But Buddhism, like Christianity, to take off, the early founders looked around them, kept the old motifs, changed the details and vilified the things they did not like. 

MARKETING, is how old religions survive and new ones get created. 

The ancient Romans and Greeks were virtually the same pantheon with different names for the same gods.

Funny how the Jewish and Christian and Muslim God are the same character stemming from Abraham. Funny how all those started in the same region in close proximity. Funny how the motif of afterlife and judgment existed in prior polytheism of the Canaanites and Egyptians expressed the same motifs and are near the same geography. 


Even today, some might think the Rasta religion is unique and original, but it too has it's roots in African Jewish/Christian history.

Point is religions exist because humans compete just like any other aspect of our existence.
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#57
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
Quote:Religious economy refers to religious persons and organizations interacting within a market framework of competing groups and ideologies.[1] An economy makes it possible for religious suppliers to meet the demands of different religious consumers.[2] By offering an array of religions and religious products, a competitive religious economy stimulates such activity in a market-type setting.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_...us_economy
For what it's worth, it seems like I'm too late to bring up this point about his OP: Whether or not it's possible if something can come from nothing, it's clear that God, if he exists, definitely violates that principle: After all, what is the creation of the world but his creating something out of nothing?


-Rev Rye.

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#58
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
And no Roads trying to muddy the waters . Typical  Dodgy
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.

Inuit Proverb

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#59
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
Aw, fuck.  Let's piss RR off. 

http://www.earlychristianhistory.info/mystrel.html

Quote:The mystery religions all had different features; there was no uniformity among them. However, they had certain points in common. Among them are:
  • Ritual meal on a regular basis
  • Ritual bath, or baptism, as part of initiation
  • A godman who died, or was assumed dead, but was restored
  • A goddess in attendance (usually a mother but sometimes a consort)
  • Miraculous or remarkable birth and death of the godman
  • The godman ultimately ends up in heaven
  • While living, the godman is ridiculed (by some, or by many)
There are more than this, but these suffice to make the point: The mystery religions had a good deal in common with each other, and with Christianity.

Cue "but...but...but... we're DIFFERENT" in  5...4...3...2...1...
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#60
RE: Jesusism - Just Another First Century Mystery Cult
So, Road, what you’re saying is that short of a smoking gun directly linking Christian belief and practice to some other mystery cult, you choose to believe that God’s Eternal Truth and Salvation Plan for humanity just happens to share a variety of traits that were commonly found in contemporary mystery cults in that particular region of the world — not to mention an atoning blood sacrifice, also a cult trope common in antiquity.

That’s some coincidence!
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