What Keeps Electrons Away from the Nucleus of an Atom?

[Rhondazvous]

Apartheid.

Are you saying electrons are black? That gives a whole new meaning to the term chromodynamics.

[Whateverist]

Anyone heard from Alex K recently?

No but I imagine the new born is pretty engaging and I used to teach so I know how engaging that is too.  He might just be very otherwise engaged.  Hope he ends up with some holes in his calendar soon.

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Apartheid.

Are you saying electrons are black? That gives a whole new meaning to the term chromodynamics.

Speaking of black, I'm just finishing CHimananda Ngozi Adichie's "Americanah".  Very interesting to look at the world from the eyes of someone from Nigeria who is blind to 'being black' until she comes here.  That whole culture straddling perspective really sheds a lot of light on both.  I got an education on kinky hair and a new appreciation for braiding.  God, relaxers sound horrible. 

[Rhondazvous]

Anyone heard from Alex K recently?

No but I imagine the new born is pretty engaging and I used to teach so I know how engaging that is too.  He might just be very otherwise engaged.  Hope he ends up with some holes in his calendar soon.

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Are you saying electrons are black? That gives a whole new meaning to the term chromodynamics.

Speaking of black, I'm just finishing CHimananda Ngozi Adichie's "Americanah".  Very interesting to look at the world from the eyes of someone from Nigeria who is blind to 'being black' until she comes here.  That whole culture straddling perspective really sheds a lot of light on both.  I got an education on kinky hair and a new appreciation for braiding.  God, relaxers sound horrible. 

Alex has a new born?! Zippadee doodah zippadee ay my oh my what a wonderful day. Can't ask him to take time away from that, so I'm glad you guys are here.

I'll check the book out, though I didn't mean to take the thread so far off topic.

Now, as you guys wee saying:

Iggy sees this as Einstein's big universal wham bam thank you ma'am.

Brian, thanks for the straightforward explanation. I understand that gravity isn't involved in the quantum realm. Here we have the weak force. Are you saying the weak force keeps electrons close but isn't strong enough to completely overpower them when they're excited?

[Brian37]

No but I imagine the new born is pretty engaging and I used to teach so I know how engaging that is too.  He might just be very otherwise engaged.  Hope he ends up with some holes in his calendar soon.

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Speaking of black, I'm just finishing CHimananda Ngozi Adichie's "Americanah".  Very interesting to look at the world from the eyes of someone from Nigeria who is blind to 'being black' until she comes here.  That whole culture straddling perspective really sheds a lot of light on both.  I got an education on kinky hair and a new appreciation for braiding.  God, relaxers sound horrible. 

Alex has a new born?! Zippadee doodah zippadee ay my oh my what a wonderful day. Can't ask him to take time away from that, so I'm glad you guys are here.

I'll check the book out, though I didn't mean to take the thread so far off topic.

Now, as you guys wee saying:

Iggy sees this as Einstein's big universal wham bam thank you ma'am.

Brian, thanks for the straightforward explanation.  I understand that gravity isn't involved in the quantum realm. Here we have the weak force. Are you saying the weak force keeps electrons close but isn't strong enough to completely overpower them when they're excited?

Look, if you want deep answers ask the real eggheads. I only understand general concepts, not the math. I cant even remember the grade I got in my college physics class. Obviously passing because I do have a degree, but it was in arts, not science.

All I know about electrons is that they are fucking tiny and fast and can jump from orbit to orbit. Neutrinos are so damned small they can pass through a solid planet. As far as why an electron stays orbiting the nucleus. The following confused the shit out of me. 

https://chem.libretexts.org/Core/Physica...t_Collapse

But this following one gives you a layperson's description. https://education.jlab.org/qa/atomicstructure_08.html

[Neo-Scholastic]

The protons and neutrons like to keep them at a distance because they're so negative.

[AFTT47]

The strong and weak forces are not felt outside the nucleus. The electromagnetic force keeps the electrons from flying off.

[Brian37]

The strong and weak forces are not felt outside the nucleus. The electromagnetic force keeps the electrons from flying off.

Yea, both the articles gave me that impression, the ones I posted. 

Like I said before, at the macro, star/planet level, it is about a bend in space/time, at the micro QM atom level, the orbit is still called and orbit, but the relationships between the orbiter and center are not described the same way.

[Rhondazvous]

Alex has a new born?! Zippadee doodah zippadee ay my oh my what a wonderful day. Can't ask him to take time away from that, so I'm glad you guys are here.

I'll check the book out, though I didn't mean to take the thread so far off topic.

Now, as you guys wee saying:

Iggy sees this as Einstein's big universal wham bam thank you ma'am.

Brian, thanks for the straightforward explanation.  I understand that gravity isn't involved in the quantum realm. Here we have the weak force. Are you saying the weak force keeps electrons close but isn't strong enough to completely overpower them when they're excited?

Look, if you want deep answers ask the real eggheads. I only understand general concepts, not the math. I cant even remember the grade I got in my college physics class. Obviously passing because I do have a degree, but it was in arts, not science.

All I know about electrons is that they are fucking tiny and fast and can jump from orbit to orbit. Neutrinos are so damned small they can pass through a solid planet. As far as why an electron stays orbiting the nucleus. The following confused the shit out of me. 

https://chem.libretexts.org/Core/Physica...t_Collapse

But this following one gives you a layperson's description. https://education.jlab.org/qa/atomicstructure_08.html

Well at least you passed. On my high school physics exam I think I owed points.

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Electromagnetic field?! This is significant. I must go back and change some things in my novel. Some of my characters are going to groan. I'll just tell them it's a new covenant. A new dispensation. And Rhonda said let there be, and there was.

[Banned]

If electrons are attracted to protons, what force keeps them from collapsing into the nucleus of an atom?

Is it the same force that keeps a planet orbiting a star without falling into it?

Protons and electrons share the same force/s by which they exist and present an effect, which is commonly named a "particle" because it acts like one, even though it can also act like a wave.

Any atom, or subatomic component is a different set up, or mix if you like, of the same force/s. Many of those effects (called particles) have counter effects (called particles).
While particles may be attracted to each other, they may repel each other in proximity, and so remain at a distinguishable and predictable distance.

It is not unlike a wave pattern which has highs and lows at regular intervals and distance. 'Particles' can be opposite effects in the 'wave' of the same force. 

And yes, the same force/s cause planets and stars and galaxies to remain certain distances from other objects.
It is commonly thought and taught that gravity holds the planets in orbit.
No, not the case by any means. Gravity is a by-product of the force/s discussed above.

I am curious why you would think your questions, are you brilliant, or just picking up things by instinct - which is also a sign of intelligence, or were you guessing?

Even if you're not serious - it is a pertinent comment.

[polymath257]

The force that keeps the Earth and planets in orbit is gravity. Gravity is a force directed towards the central mass (the sun in this case). But forces produce *acceleration*. So if the planet is moving sideways, the force pulls that stright line into a circular (or elliptical) orbit. Essentially, the sideways motion gives some angular momentum that needs to be preserved and falling directly in would violate that.

For electrons in an atom, things are more complicated. First, the force involved is the electromagnetic force. Which, between electrons and nuclei does work in a way similar to gravity *for macroscopic objects). The problem is than an accelerating charge will lose energy by emitting light and that doesn't happen in an atom.

In fact, the lowest 'orbital' in an atom has no angular momentum! What actually happens is that the Heisenberg uncertainty principle comes into play. Essentially, if the electron tried to collapse close to the nucleus, we would know where it is located, which means its momentum would be uncertain, meaning it wouldn't *stay* close to the nucleus.

So there is a playoff between the electromagnetic force and the uncertainty principle making it so even the electrons at the lowest energy have to stay away from the nucleus.