Bitcoin ?

[Pat Mustard]

I have no info about this currency; the "Bitcoin".
All I know that it's:
1-A Virtual Currency
2-It went viral nowadays and its value exceeded all expected.

So what do you think?

Google the Dutch tulip craze and that'll tell you all you need to know.

Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

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When you understand that money in a regular bank is just a number on a database, bitcoin becomes just another currency... just another number.

There used to be an age when the money available to banks was related to the amount of actual valuable metal (or other commodities) that the bank possessed. The money we used, coins and bank notes, were backed by something that was actually worth something.
Nowadays, our bank notes are backed by promises of future profits... and last 2008 we saw just how feeble that system is. And it's heading there again.

What makes something valuable?
What makes money valuable? The fact that everyone agrees to exchange it for goods? That some goods are valued a particular amount, others are valued at another amount, and so on and so forth.

Bitcoins are being valuable because some people are interested in them... they attributing value to them. As long as someone is willing to exchange regular currency for bitcoins, they will be valuable. As soon as people stop that, bitcoins will become like credits on an online game.

The thing you're neglecting here is tha all currency is fiat, even those "backed" by "valuable"* metals. And the currencies tied to metal standards had many problems that todays currencies don't have as well as facing the same problems todays currencies do face. The biggest was its utter inflexibility, in that governments couldn't readjust their currency to suit the needs of their economy (a problem which has resurfaced to some extent with independent central banks pushing monaterist economic policy) And even under the gold standard most of the currency was backed by nothing, any run on a bank would only see the first few people able to exchange their paper for metal.

*What value does gold have any way? It is shiny it has very limited applications in electronics, and that is it. Just because it is rare doesn't automatically confer it with value.

[Aoi Magi]

The concept of cryptocurrency is great and I support it but personally I'm gonna wait for things to stabilize a bit

Yea and that is the rub considering hacking worldwide. While physical paper and coin are tracked by banks, they have far more stability. And you have paperwork and bank insurance too. While online technology has helped, just like your physical house, you cant live in a virtual house. At some point representation still gets physical.

I don't trust it, seems like virtual gambling, and from what I see from Wall Street outside this idea, right now, I think it is playing with fire.

I didn't mean stabilize in that sense. Compared to bank tracked currency, cryptocurrency is already better because the ledger is not maintained by one single bank but by every concerned node in the network. A house and money are different things, money has always been a virtual value assigned to random objects, and I'd much prefer that valuation process be fully transparent.

[pocaracas]

The thing you're neglecting here is tha all currency is fiat, even those "backed" by "valuable"* metals. And the currencies tied to metal standards had many problems that todays currencies don't have as well as facing the same problems todays currencies do face. The biggest was its utter inflexibility, in that governments couldn't readjust their currency to suit the needs of their economy (a problem which has resurfaced to some extent with independent central banks pushing monaterist economic policy) And even under the gold standard most of the currency was backed by nothing, any run on a bank would only see the first few people able to exchange their paper for metal.

*What value does gold have any way? It is shiny it has very limited applications in electronics, and that is it. Just because it is rare doesn't automatically confer it with value.

My bold...
I see "flexibility" that as a bigger problem.
Why should governments readjust their currency?! What the heck does that mean? To artificially make your currency be worth more so that you can more easily comply with your past agreements, leaving your international creditors to take the losses?... I'm sure they will be super happy with that will want to give you credit again in the future... yeah right!
Maybe my non-economicist mind just doesn't understand the cleverness of it... because "of course" the international community will again give you credit, huh?! The community is a mass of idiots, after all... and one must rely on such idiocy, and thus be allowed to commit a stupidity (if the community were smart)...


Gold is valuable because people attribute it value. People attribute it value because it's relatively rare and difficult to find, but also because it does not tarnish, does not oxidize. It retains it's properties across millennia, unlike any other relatively rare metal. Also, it's yellow and shiny like the sun... and you know how people have worshiped the sun. People want a piece of the god... and when people want something, it becomes valuable.

[Pat Mustard]

The thing you're neglecting here is tha all currency is fiat, even those "backed" by "valuable"* metals. And the currencies tied to metal standards had many problems that todays currencies don't have as well as facing the same problems todays currencies do face. The biggest was its utter inflexibility, in that governments couldn't readjust their currency to suit the needs of their economy (a problem which has resurfaced to some extent with independent central banks pushing monaterist economic policy) And even under the gold standard most of the currency was backed by nothing, any run on a bank would only see the first few people able to exchange their paper for metal.

*What value does gold have any way? It is shiny it has very limited applications in electronics, and that is it. Just because it is rare doesn't automatically confer it with value.

My bold...
I see "flexibility" that as a bigger problem.
Why should governments readjust their currency?! What the heck does that mean? To artificially make your currency be worth more so that you can more easily comply with your past agreements, leaving your international creditors to take the losses?... I'm sure they will be super happy with that will want to give you credit again in the future... yeah right!
Maybe my non-economicist mind just doesn't understand the cleverness of it... because "of course" the international community will again give you credit, huh?! The community is a mass of idiots, after all... and one must rely on such idiocy, and thus be allowed to commit a stupidity (if the community were smart)...


Gold is valuable because people attribute it value. People attribute it value because it's relatively rare and difficult to find, but also because it does not tarnish, does not oxidize. It retains it's properties across millennia, unlike any other relatively rare metal. Also, it's yellow and shiny like the sun... and you know how people have worshiped the sun. People want a piece of the god... and when people want something, it becomes valuable.

If you want to see the value of lexibility look at the UK's response to the great depression, viz to go back on the gold standard. It made the UKs depression longer and worse than most other major economies, because the gold standard kept the currency artificially way above its true value.

[Edwardo Piet]

I go to the official Bitcoin website and it gives me all the warnings and dangers and risks of Bitcoin . . . but it doesn't advertise any actual rewards or benefits. Lol!



They're like:

Please be warned that X could happen and Y could happen and Z could happen and those are all bad things so please do be careful and use Bitcoin only at your own risk! This is all very new.

So why should you use Bitcoin?

Errrm.... ermmm... cya!

[dyresand]

Well, there is Cryptonote based currency which is untraceable XMR (Monero) is one of the most popular crypto-based currencies out now.
And it's a forked version of ByteCoin BNC. All transactions themselves are secure and untraceable I.E. third parties such as domesticated spying or otherwise
cannot track down where the coin is coming or going.

For now, until someone discovers a weakness. Nothing is forever. Don't get me wrong. I think the cryptocurrencies are likely the future of finances, but nothing is perfect and all will eventually be hacked, patched, hacked again, and so on. Just like dollar and cents transactions.

What we need more than an untraceable currency is a government that keeps their fucking nose out of Joe Average's bank account just because he had a couple big nights (over $10,000) at the casino and makes cash deposits!

if it makes you feel any better IRS governments in general cant really do much or anything to regulate bitcoin or cryptocurrency or even tax it. That is money you own that they cant fuck with.

[Ravenshire]

Again, yet. I'm certain that the govt. will find a way. As soon as it's profitable for them to do so.

[dyresand]

Again, yet. I'm certain that the govt. will find a way. As soon as it's profitable for them to do so.

They really can't control it. The USD and Euro unlike bitcoin and any other cryptocurrency the developers have control over it.
That and bitcoin unlike USD there is a finite amount of them, unlike paper money which can be printed.  Even if they have gotten some control over bitcoin 
it's a public coin and there is so many alternatives out there they wouldn't  be able to control them all. It's  redundant for them to even want to control bitcoin 
people will just flock to another coin to avoid them.

[Brian37]

Yea and that is the rub considering hacking worldwide. While physical paper and coin are tracked by banks, they have far more stability. And you have paperwork and bank insurance too. While online technology has helped, just like your physical house, you cant live in a virtual house. At some point representation still gets physical.

I don't trust it, seems like virtual gambling, and from what I see from Wall Street outside this idea, right now, I think it is playing with fire.

I didn't mean stabilize in that sense. Compared to bank tracked currency, cryptocurrency is already better because the ledger is not maintained by one single bank but by every concerned node in the network. A house and money are different things, money has always been a virtual value assigned to random objects, and I'd much prefer that valuation process be fully transparent.

I don't see it that way. I think because it is so interconnected it makes it easier to hack. Money is an arbitrary number but the labor and objects they represent are physical and that will never change. If you have physical paper and coin in a vault that is something you cant turn into 0s and 1s. You can hack the representation though. Like I said, you will never live in a virtual house, but you can forge a mortgage with someone else's identity, but the physical house remains. 

0's and 1's are all programming are. And just like breaking into a house, computer programs can be hacked.

[WinterHold]

I have no info about this currency; the "Bitcoin".
All I know that it's:
1-A Virtual Currency
2-It went viral nowadays and its value exceeded all expected.

So what do you think?

The concept of cryptocurrency is great and I support it but personally I'm gonna wait for things to stabilize a bit

With all the economical wars and crisis between countries and business men; I think it's very logical to doubt it. Cryptocurrency looks fantastic but still: on paper only. So I agree with you; we'll have to wait.

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Credit cards look similar.

From what I understand, credit card's are backed by "Fiat" toilet paper -I mean cash- that you are promised to get gold for its worth; right?
Bitcoin tears down that concept.

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I remain skeptical it's secure and/or can't be snooped thru via the CIA or Mossad or KGB  . . .

If somebody hacked the Blockchain, then they can do whatever they want.. I wouldn't trust it no matter what. Hackers can be purchased now in a rate easier than ever.

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When you understand that money in a regular bank is just a number on a database, bitcoin becomes just another currency... just another number.

There used to be an age when the money available to banks was related to the amount of actual valuable metal (or other commodities) that the bank possessed. The money we used, coins and bank notes, were backed by something that was actually worth something.
Nowadays, our bank notes are backed by promises of future profits... and last 2008 we saw just how feeble that system is. And it's heading there again.

What makes something valuable?
What makes money valuable? The fact that everyone agrees to exchange it for goods? That some goods are valued a particular amount, others are valued at another amount, and so on and so forth.

Bitcoins are being valuable because some people are interested in them... they attributing value to them. As long as someone is willing to exchange regular currency for bitcoins, they will be valuable. As soon as people stop that, bitcoins will become like credits on an online game.

The fashion of "substituting gold for services" is one wicked trick. I think it was the biggest robbery in the history of mankind.
Fiat money is actually your worth in the new world; without the government that printed it, it's....toilet paper.

I understand that the "some people" you mean, are not the users of the currency; but fat cats lurking in the dark?

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I remain skeptical it's secure and/or can't be snooped thru via the CIA or Mossad or KGB  . . .

Well, there is Cryptonote based currency which is untraceable XMR (Monero) is one of the most popular crypto-based currencies out now.
And it's a forked version of ByteCoin BNC. All transactions themselves are secure and untraceable I.E. third parties such as domesticated spying or otherwise
cannot track down where the coin is coming or going.

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Let me guess: deep web?

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I started a thread like this a while back asking about the same topic and I'm still not much clearer about it.

I mean some of it is straight forward but I still don't get the bitcoin mining process, what value is the mining providing in order to gain bitcoin?

I'll take a look at it, did a minor reading today and still not getting all of its concept.
1 thing: who's generating it? I mean bank notes were backed by gold; then oil, but what is bitcoin's backbone?

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The concept of cryptocurrency is great and I support it but personally I'm gonna wait for things to stabilize a bit

Yea and that is the rub considering hacking worldwide. While physical paper and coin are tracked by banks, they have far more stability. And you have paperwork and bank insurance too. While online technology has helped, just like your physical house, you cant live in a virtual house. At some point representation still gets physical.

I don't trust it, seems like virtual gambling, and from what I see from Wall Street outside this idea, right now, I think it is playing with fire.

It can't be trusted, because no matter how closed the system was; a hacker might be able to step in and take it all out.

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I started a thread like this a while back asking about the same topic and I'm still not much clearer about it.

I mean some of it is straight forward but I still don't get the bitcoin mining process, what value is the mining providing in order to gain bitcoin?

Bitcoin mining is like digital record keeping and that's as simplified as i can get really.

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Yea and that is the rub considering hacking worldwide. While physical paper and coin are tracked by banks, they have far more stability. And you have paperwork and bank insurance too. While online technology has helped, just like your physical house, you cant live in a virtual house. At some point representation still gets physical.

I don't trust it, seems like virtual gambling, and from what I see from Wall Street outside this idea, right now, I think it is playing with fire.

Unlike with the dollar or coins bitcoins as well as any cryptocurrency, in general, it cannot be counterfeited. I mean looking at bitcoins current value... at 10k+
I'm really shaky on whether or not it will stay stable at this point due to its rapid growth.

I heard its value dropped by 20% today after the peak it reached earlier.
Very unstable; IDK

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