Human beings have virtually no value if they are just machines

[Chad32]

In what way does living forever make things meaningful when they otherwise wouldn't be?  People have limited attention spans.  If you haven't shared time with someone in 1,000 years or 1,000,000 years, of what special significance is that time spent.  At each moment, our pasts are finite.  This is the case whether you live an eternity, or merely 100 years.  How does an infinite life span add meaning in a way that is categorically different than what 100 years does?

Are you saying that there is nothing more special than the moment - which is the time we live in, we can't live in the past or future...

but if we no longer exist, then the alternative of living forever is really special isn't it?

We can imagine that a life from the past to be significant, because of memory, but how does the memory help the deceased? And how will that be of any value when those with the memories die?

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... Something being finite and rare is what gives it value.

To whom? to the dead or the living?
And when the living die, then that life is less than nothing.

To the living. If you do great things with your life, then that greatness gets enjoyed by your children, and your community. Life is not worthless, just because it ends. If you don't care that your deeds effect the greater population, then that says more about you than us.

[Banned]

After my death, some value hopefully to those not in my little circle. Organ donation (maybe if I haven't trashed them all) then body to medical science. Hopefully fertilizer at the ultimate end. That will be enough afterlife for me.

And what if you are worth far more than you can imagine to someone else? 

The fertilizer thing is a cop out, and you won't be around to think it's enough for you either.

Where's your gusto to be in an everlasting, loving and intelligent relationship?

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To the living. If you do great things with your life, then that greatness gets enjoyed by your children, and your community. Life is not worthless, just because it ends. If you don't care that your deeds effect the greater population, then that says more about you than us.

But it's like someone already said - two or three generations and you're putz, whether you were worthless or not.

[Chad32]

After my death, some value hopefully to those not in my little circle. Organ donation (maybe if I haven't trashed them all) then body to medical science. Hopefully fertilizer at the ultimate end. That will be enough afterlife for me.

And what if you are worth far more than you can imagine to someone else? 

The fertilizer thing is a cop out, and you won't be around to think it's enough for you either.

Where's your gusto to be in an everlasting, loving and intelligent relationship?

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To the living. If you do great things with your life, then that greatness gets enjoyed by your children, and your community. Life is not worthless, just because it ends. If you don't care that your deeds effect the greater population, then that says more about you than us.

But it's like someone already said - two or three generations and you're putz, whether you were worthless or not.

If you want to be remembered, with your name and actions in the history books, then go out and do something fantastic. We still remember figures of history centuries after they died, because they changed the world. That's the kind of immortality that is proven to exist. Not the kind where you die, and your spirit (which we can't prove exists) lives in the clouds with a god that we can't prove exists. Stop wasting time trying to become immortal in a way that has no impact on the world, and become immortal in a way that does.

[Brian37]

First off, there are two forms of value.  The first type would be the type of value that materialistic things have such as looking at a fancy television or having a fancy shaver.  This type of value, although it is something that can be cherished and appreciated, is virtually nothing in comparison to the higher value that a loved one would have in your life such as your mother.  Your mother is something so much more than just some fancy shaver or television.  But if we as human beings are nothing more than biological machines who have only this one life to live, then that reduces us to nothing more than materialistic things.  Since we are truly insignificant and nothing special in this universe which is something that is often said by skeptics such as the likes of Lawrence Krauss, then this means that the type of value we as human beings have would be reduced to nothing more than the type of value that materialistic things have.  We would be nothing more than insignificant biological machines and that is the lesser value we would have.  There is nothing warranting a higher value attributed to us as human beings if we are just biological machines living this one and only life.  The way I see it, the only thing that can bestow us this higher value would be the very notion of us being special in this universe.  That is, us being eternal souls who get to live on in the afterlife where we greet deceased loved ones, live happy forever after, etc.  If we are just biological machines living this one and only life, then we instead have every reason to treat our family and other people in this world as insignificant, materialistic things such as a shaver, book, bike, computer, etc.

^^^^^^ BULLLSHIT......

This is not science, this is crappy "philosophy".


No, we are NOT special to this universe. I cant stand that you think we have to be special to the universe, simply because the sane say we are blips. WE ARE BLIPS, sorry, it isn't sexy but how you conclude that means those who say that, are fatalistic, materialistic or greedy for saying that is absurd.

NOBODY who is saying "this is it" is saying don't value now. JUST THE OPPOSITE, value now, because that is all you have. 

You go to a movie knowing it ends, but you still go. You go to a music concert knowing it ends but you still go. You go to a sporting event knowing it ends, but you still go. You get a pet dog or cat, knowing it will not live as long as you will, but you still have one, and after it dies, maybe you get another.

NO sorry we are NOT special to the universe. But I am fucking tired of people claiming, that because we say that, that makes us claim we should not care now. NO and bullshit, we should care now because now is all we have.

And you know what is especially insulting to my intellect when I read garbage like this? Having gone through taking care of my elderly mother for years, and being scared shitless over her health problems, and watching her decline AND WATCHED HER DIE. Humans are certainly made up of mass called atoms, but where the hell you get off thinking I didn't love her because I accept reality, or that I didn't feel pain or miss her because I lost her, well sorry, BUT F YOU.

I have feelings and emotions too, I simply do not assign nature and reality to superstition, religion or woo.

[Banned]

If you want to be remembered, with your name and actions in the history books, then go out and do something fantastic. We still remember figures of history centuries after they died, because they changed the world. That's the kind of immortality that is proven to exist. Not the kind where you die, and your spirit (which we can't prove exists) lives in the clouds with a god that we can't prove exists. Stop wasting time trying to become immortal in a way that has no impact on the world, and become immortal in a way that does.

That's a really good point.

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No, we are NOT special to this universe. I can't stand that you think we have to be special to the universe...

...we should care now because now is all we have.

How would the guarantee of eternal life make us any less special in the moment?

[Chad32]

If you want to be remembered, with your name and actions in the history books, then go out and do something fantastic. We still remember figures of history centuries after they died, because they changed the world. That's the kind of immortality that is proven to exist. Not the kind where you die, and your spirit (which we can't prove exists) lives in the clouds with a god that we can't prove exists. Stop wasting time trying to become immortal in a way that has no impact on the world, and become immortal in a way that does.

That's a really good point.

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No, we are NOT special to this universe. I can't stand that you think we have to be special to the universe...

...we should care now because now is all we have.

How does the offer of eternal life diminish the importance of the moment?

Wouldn't it put the present into perspective, or is having hope illegal?

Thanks. But then you kind of blow it with the later question. Eternity takes away value. that's what we've been explaining the whole time. If everyone had an infinite amount of money, then money would lose all value. Same with existence.

[Banned]

Thanks. But then you kind of blow it with the later question. Eternity takes away value. that's what we've been explaining the whole time. If everyone had an infinite amount of money, then money would lose all value. Same with existence.

That's interesting.

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How does an infinite amount of time to live, devalue or put into insignificance the present moment, by which we live anyway?

[brewer]

After my death, some value hopefully to those not in my little circle. Organ donation (maybe if I haven't trashed them all) then body to medical science. Hopefully fertilizer at the ultimate end. That will be enough afterlife for me.

And what if you are worth far more than you can imagine to someone else? 

The fertilizer thing is a cop out, and you won't be around to think it's enough for you either.

Where's your gusto to be in an everlasting, loving and intelligent relationship

I do not wish the "gusto" of fantasy delusion. I'm satisfied with reality. To bad you have to trick yourself the rest of your days.

[Brian37]

If you want to be remembered, with your name and actions in the history books, then go out and do something fantastic. We still remember figures of history centuries after they died, because they changed the world. That's the kind of immortality that is proven to exist. Not the kind where you die, and your spirit (which we can't prove exists) lives in the clouds with a god that we can't prove exists. Stop wasting time trying to become immortal in a way that has no impact on the world, and become immortal in a way that does.

That's a really good point.

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No, we are NOT special to this universe. I can't stand that you think we have to be special to the universe...

...we should care now because now is all we have.

How would the guarantee of eternal life make us any less special in the moment?

Peddle your narcissism elsewhere. Do you really think you are the only religion on this planet that sells the idea that your label makes you special? I was born at night, just not last night.

I have absolutely NO desire to be forever anymore than I worry about having a name before I was born. The universe did fine before I was born and it will continue on after I die. I most certainly am important to me now, and important to those who know me now, but I am not so foolish as to think the universe can't exist without me.

[Banned]

I do not wish the "gusto" of fantasy delusion. I'm satisfied with reality. Too bad you have to trick yourself the rest of your days.

I don't have life in me by a trick, so why should I expect anything less?

Life is real, so is love, grace, fairness, reward and justice.

If the Source of life offers me more, why make a noose out of the rope let down?