This Should Piss Off Some Muslims

[Minimalist]

 

[vulcanlogician]

Lol, enjoy your grapes, jihadists.

[WinterHold]

But the oldest found, is kept in Britain now:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scienc...81728.html

Carbon dating indicate it was made in the 7th and 6th century AD period; and what is found is identical to the text we have now: only difference from a modern Quran is the marking "dots" and marking "harakat" above and below letters.


Carbon dating suggests that the book predates prophet Mohammed. But I say what I always repeated here: Islamic history written in Hadith books and by Sunni/Shiite scholars is the incorrect one. The period the carbon dating suggested is "in the same range suggested in Islamic history for the revelation's coming" though.

Yep this is it in wikipedia; I mean the Bremingham's Quran:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham...manuscript

The Birmingham Quran manuscript is a parchment on which two leaves of an early Quranic manuscript are written. In 2015 the manuscript, which is held by the University of Birmingham,[1] was radiocarbon dated to between 568 and 645 AD (in the Islamic calendar, between 56 BH and 25 AH.[2][3] It is part of the Mingana Collection of Middle Eastern manuscripts, held by the university's Cadbury Research Library.[2]

[Minimalist]

Um, probably not.

https://medium.com/@shaykhdaniel/no-the-...122521c648

4. The document contains some usage of diacritical marks. These are the dots above or below certain characters to indicate which letter is intended in the case that they share the same “skeletal” shape (for example, ب ت ث or ش س). Diacritical marks are widely known and universally recognized as postdating the lifetime of the Prophet. Now, we have examples of manuscripts where diacritical marks have been added by others later, and this could be the case here. But it’s also entirely possible, even without this consideration, that the parchment fragments could predate their use as material for a written Qurʾān by centuries.

The manuscript in the video is completely devoid of diacritical markings.

[WinterHold]

Minimalist

Um, probably not.

https://medium.com/@shaykhdaniel/no-the-...122521c648

4. The document contains some usage of diacritical marks. These are the dots above or below certain characters to indicate which letter is intended in the case that they share the same “skeletal” shape (for example, ب ت ث or ش س). Diacritical marks are widely known and universally recognized as postdating the lifetime of the Prophet. Now, we have examples of manuscripts where diacritical marks have been added by others later, and this could be the case here. But it’s also entirely possible, even without this consideration, that the parchment fragments could predate their use as material for a written Qurʾān by centuries.

The manuscript in the video is completely devoid of diacritical markings.

First of all; this from the link you posted:

Here’s a great example. “Ṭaha” is one of the endearing names used by God for the Prophet Muḥammad. In fact, there is an entire sūra known by this name. And guess what? It is included among the Birmingham fragments:

The interpretation is wrong.

http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/tafseer/tabary/sura20-aya1.html

"Taha" was referred to as "oh man". The link above is a very strict Sunni, old-school interpretation for it in Arabic
Others said it is a name for "Allah" himself.
Others said the word is a mere "separated letters" that open the Suras; nobody knows their meaning but non of them was ever cited to refer to Mohammed by both Sunni, Shiite and even Sufi interpreters.
Muslim interpreters.

Making the verse means: Oh man  [or] man ! we didn't reveal the Quran for you so you miserable.

When I searched in English though; I almost got a heart attack because most interpretations did not mention this. But to make sure I'm saying the truth; translate the link yourself.

طه (1)

---

القول في تأويل قوله تعالى : طه (1)
قال أبو جعفر محمد بن جرير: اختلف أهل التأويل في تأويل قوله (طَهَ) فقال بعضهم: معناه يا رجل.
* ذكر من قال ذلك:
حدثنا ابن حميد، قال: ثنا أبو تميلة، عن الحسن بن واقد، عن يزيد النحوي، عن عكرمة، عن ابن عباس: طه: بالنبطية: يا رجل.
حدثني محمد بن سعد، قال: ثني أبي، قال: ثني عمي، قال: ثني أبي، عن أبيه، عن ابن عباس.
قوله ( طه مَا أَنـزلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْقُرْآنَ لِتَشْقَى ) فإن قومه قالوا: لقد شقي هذا الرجل بربه، فأنـزل الله تعالى ذكره (طَهَ) يعني: يا رجل ( مَا أَنـزلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْقُرْآنَ لِتَشْقَى ).
حدثنا القاسم، قال: ثنا الحسين، قال: ثني حجاج، عن ابن جريج، قال: أخبرني عبد الله بن مسلم، أو يعلى بن مسلم، عن سعيد بن جبير أنه قال: طه: يا رجل بالسريانية.
قال ابن جريج: وأخبرني زمعة بن صالح، عن سلمة بن وهرام، عن عكرمة، عن ابن عباس، بذلك أيضا. قال ابن جُرَيج، وقال مجاهد، ذلك أيضا.
حدثنا عمران بن موسى القزاز، قال: ثنا عبد الوارث بن سعيد، قال: ثنا عمارة عن عكرمة، في قوله (طَهَ) قال: يا رجل، كلمه بالنبطية.
حدثنا ابن حميد، قال: ثنا يحيى بن واضح، قال: ثنا عبد الله، عن عكرمة، في قوله (طَهَ) قال: بالنبطية: يا إنسان.
حدثنا محمد بن بشار، قال: ثنا أبو عاصم، عن قرة بن خالد، عن الضحاك، في قوله (طَهَ) قال: يا رجل بالنبطية.
حدثنا محمد بن بشار، قال: ثنا عبد الرحمن، قال: ثنا سفيان، عن حُصين، عن عكرمة في قوله (طَهَ) قال: يا رجل.
حدثنا بشر، قال: ثنا يزيد، قال: ثنا سعيد، عن قتادة، قوله (طَهَ) قال: يا رجل، وهي بالسريانية.
حدثنا الحسن، قال: أخبرنا عبد الرزاق، قال: أخبرنا معمر، عن قتادة والحسن في قوله (طَهَ) قالا يا رجل.
حُدثت عن الحسين، قال: سمعت أبا معاذ، يقول: أخبرنا عبيد، يعني ابن سليمان، قال: سمعت الضحاك يقول في قوله (طَهَ) قال: يا رجل.
وقال آخرون: هو اسم من أسماء الله، وقسم أقسم الله به.
* ذكر من قال ذلك:
حدثنا عليّ، قال: ثنا عبد الله، قال: ثني معاوية، عن عليّ، عن ابن عباس، في قوله (طَهَ) قال: فإنه قسم أقسم الله به، وهو اسم من أسماء الله.
وقال آخرون: هو حروف هجاء.
وقال آخرون: هو حروف مقطعة يدلّ كلّ حرف منها على معنى، واختلفوا في ذلك اختلافهم في الم .
وقد ذكرنا ذلك في مواضعه، وبيَّنا ذلك بشواهده.
والذي هو أولى بالصواب عندي من الأقوال فيه قول من قال: معناه: يا رجل، لأنها كلمة معروفة في عكَّ فيما بلغني، وأن معناها فيهم: يا رجل، أنشدت لمتمم بن نويرة:
هَتَفْـتُ بِطَـهَ فِـي القِتـالِ فَلَـمْ يُجِبْ
فَخِــفْتُ عَلَيْــهِ أنْ يَكـونَ مُـوَائِلا (3)
وقال آخر:
إنَّ السَّــفاهَةَ طَــهَ مِـنْ خَـلائِقكُمْ
لا بـارَكَ اللـهُ فِـي القَـوْمِ المَلاعِينِ (4)
فإذا كان ذلك معروفا فيهم على ما ذكرنا، فالواجب أن يوجه تأويله إلى المعروف فيهم من معناه، ولا سيما إذا وافق ذلك تأويل أهل العلم من الصحابة والتابعين.
فتأويل الكلام إذن: يا رجل ما أنـزلنا عليك القرآن لتشقى، ما أنـزلناه عليك فنكلفك ما لا طاقة لك به من العمل، وذُكِر أنه قيل له ذلك بسبب ما كان يلقى من النَّصب والعناء والسهر في قيام الليل.
* ذكر من قال ذلك:
---------------------------------
الهوامش :
(3) البيت لمتمم بن نويرة كما قال المؤلف . وفيه ( اللسان : طهطه ) : الليث في تفسير ( طه ) مجزومة أنها بالحبشية : يا رجل ، قال : ومن قرأ ( طه ) فحرفان . وبلغنا أن موسى لما سمع كلام الرب عز وجل استفزه الخوف ، حتى قام على أصابع قدميه خوفا ، فقال الله عز وجل : ( طه ) أي اطمئن . الفراء : ( طه ) حرف هجاء . قال : وجاء في التفسير ( طه ) يا رجل : يا إنسان . قال : وحدث قيس عن عاصم عن زر ، قال : قرأ رجل على ابن مسعود ( طه فقال له عبد الله : ( طه ) بكسرتين ، فقال الرجل : أليس إنما أمر أن يطأ قدمه ، فقال له عبد الله : هكذا أقرأنيها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم . قال الفراء : وكان بعض القراء يقطعها ( ط . هـ ) وروى الأزهري عن أبي حاتم قال : ( طه ) : افتتاح سورة ، ثم استقبل الكلام فخاطب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، فقال : مَا أَنْزَلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْقُرْآنَ لِتَشْقَى . وقال قتادة : ( طه ) بالسريانية : يا رجل . وقال سعيد بن جبير وعكرمة : هي بالنبطية : يا رجل ، وروي ذلك عن ابن عباس . أه . ( اللسان ) .
(4) هذا الشاهد كالذي قبله ، على أن معنى ( طه ) في كلام العرب : يا رجل ولم أقف على قائل البيت .

-
Translation:

Taha (1)
Saying in the interpretation of the verse: Taha (1)
Abu Jaafar Muhammad ibn Jarir said: The people of interpretation differed in the interpretation of the saying (Taha). Some of them said: It means man.
* Mentioned who said that:
Tell us the son of Hamid, said: Tna Abu Tamila, from Hassan ibn Waqid, from Yazid grammar, from Akrama, from Ibn Abbas: Taha: Nabatiyeh: O man.
Narrated by Muhammad ibn Saad, he said: Abi Abi, said: bend my uncle, he said: Abi Abi, from his father, from Ibn Abbas.
Saying: "Taha, we have sent down the Koran to you to drink." His people said: "This man has been disobedient to his Lord, and Allaah has revealed to him (Taha) means: O man.
Tell us the denominator, he said: Thna Hussein, said: bend Hajjaj, the son of Greg, he said: Abdullah bin Muslim, or superior bin Muslim, Said bin Jubair said he said: Taha: O man in Syriac.
Ibn Jarij said: Zumah ibn Salih told me about Salamah ibn al-Haram, on the authority of 'Akramah, on the authority of Ibn' Abbaas. Ibn Greg, said Mujahid, that too.
Narrated by Imran bin Musa al-Qazzaz, he said: Thna Abdul Warth bin Said, said: Thana building on Akrama, in saying (Taha) said: O man, spoke Nabatieh.
Tell us the son of Hamid, said: Thna Yahya bin clear, he said: Thna Abdullah, Akrama, in saying (Taha) said: Nabatiyeh: O man.
Tell us Mohammed bin Bashar, said: Thna Abu Assem, from Qara ibn Khalid, on the Dahak, in saying (Taha) said: O man in Nabatiyeh.
Tell us Mohammed bin Bashar, said: Thna Abdul Rahman, said: Thna Sufian, about the fortified, Akrama in saying (Taha) said: O man.
Tell us, he said: Tna Yazid, said: happy, from Qatada, saying (Taha) said: O man, which is Syriac.
Al-Hasan told us, he said: Abdul Razzaq told us, he said: Muammar told us, about Qatada and Hassan in saying (Taha) said, O man.
Al-Husayn said, "I heard Abu Mu'adh saying: 'Obeid told us, meaning Ibn Sulayman.
Others said: It is the name of the names of God, and the oath swear by God.
* Mentioned who said that:
Tell us, he said: Thna Abdullah, said: bend Muawiyah, Ali, from Ibn Abbas, in the words (Taha) said: it is a division swear by God, a name of the names of God.
Others said: It is spelling.
Others said: It is a fragmentary letter indicating each letter of meaning, and differed in that difference in Alm.
We have mentioned this in his places, and we have shown that in his testimony.
Which is the first right I have to say the words of those who said: meaning: O man, because it is a well-known word in Akk as I was informed, and that the meaning of them: O man, I sang to Mtmam bin Nuwayrah:
His father cried in the fighting, and he did not have to
He was afraid to be inclined (3)
Another said:
Taha Taha of your creations
Do not bless God in the people fucks (4)
If this is known to them as stated, it is necessary to direct his interpretation to the known ones of its meaning, especially if the interpretation of the scholars of the companions and followers.
So the interpretation of speech then: O man, we sent down the Koran to you, what we sent to you Vnklfk what you can not work, and he said that it was because of what was thrown from the monument and the effort and vigilance in the night.
* Mentioned who said that:
---------------------------------
Margins:
(3) The House of the Supporter of Ibn Nuwayrah as the author said. And in it (tongue: Tahta): Leith in the interpretation of (Taha) fragmented by the barbarism: O man, he said: and read (Taha) Verhan. And we learned that Moses did not hear the words of the Lord Almighty provoked by fear, even on his toes fear, said God Almighty: (Taha) any reassuring. Fur: (Taha) spelling character. He said: The interpretation (Taha) O man: O man. (Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him: "The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to him: And he said: "And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:" What we have revealed to you is the Qur'aan for you to drink. "Qutaadah said:" The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: Taha) in Syriac: O man, Saeed bin Jubair and Akrama said: It is Nabatiyeh: O man, and narrated that from Ibn Abbas.
(4) This witness as before, that the meaning (Taha) in the words of the Arabs: O man and I did not stand on the house.


The rest of the link you posted forgot something: it took the Sunni and Shiite records for granted, neglecting the fact that after Mohammed, his followers fought with each other and produced the messed up mess we see today between Sunna and Shia; leading to the formation of the two sects. I would never trust the stories of such people about history, maybe general events, but never would I take the details from them.

Shiites and Sunnies are ass kissers to kings and Sultans from such a long time, and writing under the threat of the sword was a very known behavior through the Islamic world.

[Minimalist]

The whole point was that without the diacritical marks there could be up to 30 meanings for words in the text. 

That means that someone ( later on ) sat down and decided which words were which.  Are you willing to admit that your precious holy book was edited by some schmuck with a new writing system?

[vorlon13]

The whole point was that without the diacritical marks there could be up to 30 meanings for words in the text. 

That means that someone ( later on ) sat down and decided which words were which.  Are you willing to admit that your precious holy book was edited by some schmuck with a new writing system?

So . .

not quite ass blown, but close ?

[The Valkyrie]

Right now there's a Muslim soo pissed off he just went "Boom!".

[Minimalist]

The whole point was that without the diacritical marks there could be up to 30 meanings for words in the text. 

That means that someone ( later on ) sat down and decided which words were which.  Are you willing to admit that your precious holy book was edited by some schmuck with a new writing system?

So . .

not quite ass blown, but close ?

Go Blow Allah Out Your Ass.

Works with Moses, Zeus, Shiva, and Quetzlcoatl too.

[WinterHold]

The whole point was that without the diacritical marks there could be up to 30 meanings for words in the text. 

That means that someone ( later on ) sat down and decided which words were which.  Are you willing to admit that your precious holy book was edited by some schmuck with a new writing system?

The context is what decides the meaning eventually.

As an example:

The word "طير", it means "fly" in English.
The word "طيز", it means "ass" in English.

See now how the context differs:

طير مع العصافير = Fly with birds.
عايز طيز مرا انيكه = I want to fuck a woman's ass.

Remove the marks on the letters:

طـر مع العصافـر
عاـر طـر مرا اــكه.

The context here decided the difference between a sexual reference, and a poetic reference.
"Ass" with the birds doesn't make any sense.
Wanting a woman's "fly" to fuck, doesn't make any sense.

The context. The non-existing marks on the letters prove nothing. A person fluent with the language will detect the incoherent contextual errors in seconds.

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The noun from "طير" is "طيران"