Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
(February 13, 2018 at 1:41 am)Godscreated Wrote: I scanned the thread and saw several good answers to your question and your follow ups were mostly why does a perfect God have wants/desires and I ask you why you think being perfect eliminates wants/desires. God has existed for an eternity already, meaning He has no beginning (try and get your head around that one) and He will exist for an eternity from now own, meaning He has no ending. God was perfect and is perfect and will always be perfect in all of His will and His nature. It is His nature to love without being limited so in that He has love to give abundantly. We and all His creation receives that love continually because He wants to do it, He never needed to do it and there lies the difference, He wanted to He did not need to. So God created a perfect universe and two perfect people to inhabit this perfect world only to have them screw up the relationship He had with them and then God cursed the rest of creation to match the lost relationship that He had with them before they sinned. There was something God couldn't do in all this, stop loving all people that would be outside His will and why because those who go to an eternal punishment will not receive love from God anymore, this is part of the punishment. Not one person before their death has ever experience a time without God's love, people may not realize it but God loves them no matter who or what they become and live to be. But as AM said only those who accept Christ as their savior become children of God, we are the only ones to experience the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ie. the triune God. To experience God is to experience all three and the love each have for us. Love is the key to your question use it to unlock some of your questions about God.
GC
Quote:
Quote:The problem that I see with this thread topic in hindsight, is that our resident theists are not in shared agreement on god’s attributes. If, according to some of you, god is perfectly whole and self-fulfilling, then the distinction between a want and a need is irrelevant. A whole, complete, perfect and self-fulfilling entity shouldn’t experience desire, because it should already have everything within itself.
On the other hand, (to bring you guys back to Jor’s thoughtful response that no Theist has taken a crack at yet) if god is NOT complete, whole and self-fulfilling, and can experience needs and wants the same as humans do, where do those desires come from, and why does he experience them? Of what value are they to a perfect god?
(February 13, 2018 at 3:16 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: On the other hand, (to bring you guys back to Jor’s thoughtful response that no Theist has taken a crack at yet) if god is NOT complete, whole and self-fulfilling, and can experience needs and wants the same as humans do, where do those desires come from, and why does he experience them? Of what value are they to a perfect god?
The short answer is that God is not and never was an independent being. It always was a 'being' whose sole existent was in our psyche/brain, the same place we find our conscious sense of self. If its wants and needs strike us as suspiciously familiar it is because they originate in the same place ours do. Gods are still a possible way to configure the human psyche and even when you no longer address the murky reverberations of the unconscious as "God", you still have a dynamic subconscious region of your consciousness which may hang onto wants and needs you'd prefer to let go.
(February 13, 2018 at 1:41 am)Godscreated Wrote: I scanned the thread and saw several good answers to your question and your follow ups were mostly why does a perfect God have wants/desires and I ask you why you think being perfect eliminates wants/desires. God has existed for an eternity already, meaning He has no beginning (try and get your head around that one) and He will exist for an eternity from now own, meaning He has no ending. God was perfect and is perfect and will always be perfect in all of His will and His nature. It is His nature to love without being limited so in that He has love to give abundantly. We and all His creation receives that love continually because He wants to do it, He never needed to do it and there lies the difference, He wanted to He did not need to. So God created a perfect universe and two perfect people to inhabit this perfect world only to have them screw up the relationship He had with them and then God cursed the rest of creation to match the lost relationship that He had with them before they sinned. There was something God couldn't do in all this, stop loving all people that would be outside His will and why because those who go to an eternal punishment will not receive love from God anymore, this is part of the punishment. Not one person before their death has ever experience a time without God's love, people may not realize it but God loves them no matter who or what they become and live to be. But as AM said only those who accept Christ as their savior become children of God, we are the only ones to experience the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ie. the triune God. To experience God is to experience all three and the love each have for us. Love is the key to your question use it to unlock some of your questions about God.
GC
The problem that I see with this thread topic in hindsight, is that our resident theists are not in shared agreement on god’s attributes. If, according to some of you, god is perfectly whole and self-fulfilling, then the distinction between a want and a need is irrelevant. A whole, complete, perfect and self-fulfilling entity shouldn’t experience desire, because it should already have everything within itself.
On the other hand, (to bring you guys back to Jor’s thoughtful response that no Theist has taken a crack at yet) if god is NOT complete, whole and self-fulfilling, and can experience needs and wants the same as humans do, where do those desires come from, and why does he experience them? Of what value are they to a perfect god?
You ignored what I post, for I said God did not need to He wanted to.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
February 14, 2018 at 1:20 am (This post was last modified: February 14, 2018 at 1:21 am by GrandizerII.)
(February 13, 2018 at 3:16 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(February 13, 2018 at 1:41 am)Godscreated Wrote: I scanned the thread and saw several good answers to your question and your follow ups were mostly why does a perfect God have wants/desires and I ask you why you think being perfect eliminates wants/desires. God has existed for an eternity already, meaning He has no beginning (try and get your head around that one) and He will exist for an eternity from now own, meaning He has no ending. God was perfect and is perfect and will always be perfect in all of His will and His nature. It is His nature to love without being limited so in that He has love to give abundantly. We and all His creation receives that love continually because He wants to do it, He never needed to do it and there lies the difference, He wanted to He did not need to. So God created a perfect universe and two perfect people to inhabit this perfect world only to have them screw up the relationship He had with them and then God cursed the rest of creation to match the lost relationship that He had with them before they sinned. There was something God couldn't do in all this, stop loving all people that would be outside His will and why because those who go to an eternal punishment will not receive love from God anymore, this is part of the punishment. Not one person before their death has ever experience a time without God's love, people may not realize it but God loves them no matter who or what they become and live to be. But as AM said only those who accept Christ as their savior become children of God, we are the only ones to experience the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ie. the triune God. To experience God is to experience all three and the love each have for us. Love is the key to your question use it to unlock some of your questions about God.
GC
The problem that I see with this thread topic in hindsight, is that our resident theists are not in shared agreement on god’s attributes. If, according to some of you, god is perfectly whole and self-fulfilling, then the distinction between a want and a need is irrelevant. A whole, complete, perfect and self-fulfilling entity shouldn’t experience desire, because it should already have everything within itself.
On the other hand, (to bring you guys back to Jor’s thoughtful response that no Theist has taken a crack at yet) if god is NOT complete, whole and self-fulfilling, and can experience needs and wants the same as humans do, where do those desires come from, and why does he experience them? Of what value are they to a perfect god?
lol God is so needy he had to be a Trinity so he could have multiple entities within him to hold onto. Talk about self-fulfilling.
(February 14, 2018 at 1:04 am)Godscreated Wrote:
(February 13, 2018 at 3:16 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: The problem that I see with this thread topic in hindsight, is that our resident theists are not in shared agreement on god’s attributes. If, according to some of you, god is perfectly whole and self-fulfilling, then the distinction between a want and a need is irrelevant. A whole, complete, perfect and self-fulfilling entity shouldn’t experience desire, because it should already have everything within itself.
On the other hand, (to bring you guys back to Jor’s thoughtful response that no Theist has taken a crack at yet) if god is NOT complete, whole and self-fulfilling, and can experience needs and wants the same as humans do, where do those desires come from, and why does he experience them? Of what value are they to a perfect god?
You ignored what I post, for I said God did not need to He wanted to.
(February 13, 2018 at 3:16 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: The problem that I see with this thread topic in hindsight, is that our resident theists are not in shared agreement on god’s attributes. If, according to some of you, god is perfectly whole and self-fulfilling, then the distinction between a want and a need is irrelevant. A whole, complete, perfect and self-fulfilling entity shouldn’t experience desire, because it should already have everything within itself.
On the other hand, (to bring you guys back to Jor’s thoughtful response that no Theist has taken a crack at yet) if god is NOT complete, whole and self-fulfilling, and can experience needs and wants the same as humans do, where do those desires come from, and why does he experience them? Of what value are they to a perfect god?
lol God is so needy he had to be a Trinity so he could have multiple entities within him to hold onto. Talk about self-fulfilling.
(February 14, 2018 at 1:04 am)Godscreated Wrote: You ignored what I post, for I said God did not need to He wanted to.
I believe with all my heart, and thats that.
As you continue to post you show greater and greater lack of biblical understanding, you should quit and find a new hobby.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
February 14, 2018 at 2:36 am (This post was last modified: February 14, 2018 at 2:38 am by LadyForCamus.)
(February 14, 2018 at 1:04 am)Godscreated Wrote:
(February 13, 2018 at 3:16 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: The problem that I see with this thread topic in hindsight, is that our resident theists are not in shared agreement on god’s attributes. If, according to some of you, god is perfectly whole and self-fulfilling, then the distinction between a want and a need is irrelevant. A whole, complete, perfect and self-fulfilling entity shouldn’t experience desire, because it should already have everything within itself.
On the other hand, (to bring you guys back to Jor’s thoughtful response that no Theist has taken a crack at yet) if god is NOT complete, whole and self-fulfilling, and can experience needs and wants the same as humans do, where do those desires come from, and why does he experience them? Of what value are they to a perfect god?
You ignored what I post, for I said God did not need to He wanted to.
Uh, no. Your reading comprehension just sucks. Bold mine. Try actually reading and thinking about what I wrote.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Quote: You ignored what I post, for I said God did not need to He wanted to.
Whether she did or not is irrelevant. If god did not need to then human creation irrational . And wants and desires are of imperfect beings . The excuses of the varied theist in this thread does not alter this .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
February 15, 2018 at 1:37 am (This post was last modified: February 15, 2018 at 1:43 am by Godscreated.)
(February 14, 2018 at 2:36 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(February 14, 2018 at 1:04 am)Godscreated Wrote: You ignored what I post, for I said God did not need to He wanted to.
Uh, no. Your reading comprehension just sucks. Bold mine. Try actually reading and thinking about what I wrote.
I wasn't concerned about what you wrote because it doesn't represent what I wrote, like I said and you still have not cared to notice is this God wanted/ desired to, not needed to. God doesn't need anything He created, He wanted to give His love to others and thus created man and the universe.
GC
(February 14, 2018 at 2:57 am)Tizheruk Wrote:
Quote: You ignored what I post, for I said God did not need to He wanted to.
Whether she did or not is irrelevant. If god did not need to then human creation irrational . And wants and desires are of imperfect beings . The excuses of the varied theist in this thread does not alter this .
Of coarse it's relevant, because it's what I said and it differs from what she said. God creating is only irrational to you because you do not know God and the love He gives. You make a statement that wants and desires are from imperfect imperfect beings yet you've given no proof, you can yammer all you want but without proving your point it is just that yammering.
GC
(February 14, 2018 at 2:20 am)Tizheruk Wrote:
Quote: As you continue to post you show greater and greater lack of biblical understanding, you should quit and find a new hobby.
GC
Funny we could say the same of you .
Haven't seen you disprove anything I've stated from the Bible.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
That's it? That's your whole argument? No commentary, no context? Merely shit out a url and do the victory strut?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
