Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
May 11, 2018 at 1:46 pm (This post was last modified: May 11, 2018 at 2:04 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
The following questions apply to both ex-atheists and theists who have always believed since they were a small child (and everything in-between of course). Here come the questions:
If you stopped believing in God, and no longer considered the existence of God at all likely or probable in any way,
(1) How do you think you would react emotionally?
and
( 2) How do you think it would impact and change your life overall?
May 11, 2018 at 2:24 pm (This post was last modified: May 11, 2018 at 2:27 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
My nihilistic brand of atheism felt kind of like a romantic defiance, saying "Yes" to life despite it's ultimate futility. I embraced the absurdity of living as a personal existent bound on each side by the darkness of oblivion. Whatever. In reality I felt detachment from the world despite choosing to relish every moment, living intentionally. In the end, nothing mattered.
May 11, 2018 at 2:42 pm (This post was last modified: May 11, 2018 at 2:44 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(May 11, 2018 at 2:24 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: My nihilistic brand of atheism felt kind of like a romantic defiance, saying "Yes" to life despite it's ultimate futility.
Sounds deliciously absurdist! LFC would be a fan!
Quote: I embraced the absurdity of living as a personal existent bound on each side by the darkness of oblivion.
Oh haha and that was before I read this next sentence (I read people's posts one point at a time and respond as I read). Absurdist indeed!
Quote: Whatever. In reality I felt detachment from the world despite choosing to relish every moment, living intentionally. In the end, nothing mattered.
So my question would be... do you think that if you went back to atheism would you return to the exact same sort of feeling for the exact same reasons or do you think that would it be even darker/more futile (or alternatively, a bit brighter and more positive) this time around?
(May 11, 2018 at 2:42 pm)Hammy Wrote: ... do you think that if you went back to atheism would you return to the exact same sort of feeling for the exact same reasons or do you think that would it be even darker/more futile (or alternatively, a bit brighter and more positive) this time around?
It's an interesting hypothetical. Now that I have more years behind me than in front, my guess is that the feelings would be more acute. Apparently they have meds for that now :-) When philosophy fails, there's always Mary Jane. Otherwise I think dilemma is as old as Mankind. One need only read Ecclesiastics.
(May 11, 2018 at 1:46 pm)Hammy Wrote: The following questions apply to both ex-atheists and theists who have always believed since they were a small child (and everything in-between of course). Here come the questions:
If you stopped believing in God, and no longer considered the existence of God at all likely or probable in any way,
(1) How do you think you would react emotionally?
and
( 2) How do you think it would impact and change your life overall?
Thanks in advance.
1. I would be sad overall. Although a small part of me would feel some sense of relief from not feeling accountable to God, I would also miss the sense of peace that comes from knowing there is a loving God who is rooting for me. I wouldn't be angry at or blame anyone who is religious or who contributed to my religious upbringing, as some seem to. Why? Because true or not it was a positive influence in my life, and because they all believed and had nothing but the best of intentions.
2. I don't think it would change my life anymore, at this point. The values I took from my faith are very deeply ingrained into me and part of who I am as a person. So I would be the same person with the same moral compass and same values.
Thanks for the interesting questions.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
May 11, 2018 at 3:15 pm (This post was last modified: May 11, 2018 at 3:35 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
There's also the parallel reverse hypothetical for atheists like myself... "How would you feel if you became a theist?/went back to theism and how would the change to theism impact your life overall?" (atheists are welcome to answer this).
My own long ramblely answer to that one is under the following hide tag
My answer is it would depend on the God. I think that, depending on how literally I interpreted notions of Heaven and Hellfire that if I became Christian or Muslim and interpreted Heaven and Hell very literally I would swing very strongly between extreme happiness and intense fear (so I'd be a lot more motivated but also a lot more stressed)... depending on if at the time I felt like I was worthy of Heaven or Hell... and perhaps I'd also preach at people obsessively to save both them and myself.
But if I interpreted it non-literally nothing would change in my life. I also think that if I believed in a God but not Heaven and Hell nothing would change in my life (unless I also believed in specific Biblical or Koranic moral principles, for example... although even then I'd probably struggle to put them into practice as I do my own moral principles now (for starters my standards for morality are so high they're nigh on impossibly and the basic idea is just for each one of us to get as close to those standards as they possibly can).
Without the threat of hellfire or the reward of heaven I'd be quite lazy about putting my moral principles into practice. Of course, it wouldn't make me any less selfish to do those things out of desire for heaven or fear of hell either. It's just far more motivating when you think you're going for a reward and punishment that is eternal and of maximum possible intensity.
In any case I think I'd spend a lot LESS time alone. I'd almost certainly overall be much, much less happy despite the increased motivation and intense joy when I felt like I was going to heaven and doing God's work. Why? Well, I am sure I would overall be much happier because I'd be so intensely stressed even at my best of times (even when experiencing the intense joy for the thrill of feeling worthy of heaven I'd still also feel feelings of stress due to pushing myself so hard to deem myself worthy of getting there)... and as someone on the autistic spectrum, with the intensity in which it affects me, I can barely even cope with mild stress.
I think the only possible way I could believe in God and be happier than I already am was if I believed absolutely everyone was guaranteed to go to heaven without exceptions. As then there's absolutely no pressure to actually do anything so there would be no stress involved but also the thrill of getting to heaven when I die. Although if I believed that strongly enough I may actually attempt suicide to get to heaven... as that's a rational act if you really believe that doing that will get you eternal bliss (and it would be rational for your family and friends to also want that for you)...... although only if you can do it completely painlessly.
So yeah I'm glad I don't believe anything like that.
Although I'm sure that even though if my friends and family believed the same thing they would have to want me to die painlessly to get eternal bliss as quickly as possible if they were to be rational.... in my experience my family and friends aren't as rational as I am so they would probably for some bizarre reason think there was something wrong if I did that and they'd miss me and for some reason not desire the same thing as myself even though if they also believed that they ought to do the same thing for the same reasons. So either they'd be lying about also believing the same thing or confused/deluded/irrational for missing the line of reasoning I presented despite their accepting the conclusion.
So, despite being selfish, because I would not want anyone to suffer from my painless death I would not take my life painlessly to get to heaven simply because my friends and family would suffer if I did so even though they shouldn't suffer and they should also take their lives too if they believe the same things for the exact same reasons (that everyone experiences intense eternal bliss in heaven when they die and that they are able to painlessly get to that). Although perhaps the problem is even if they believed that and I believed it there were also non-mutual friends that would suffer or something like that).
So yeah I guess even if I believed everyone was guaranteed eternal bliss after they die I would not take my life painlessly if I could simply because even if my family and friends also believed this and wanted this and would not suffer either they themselves may actually have friends who I don't share who would suffer when they followed in my footsteps.
So I'd just believe that whenever I eventually die I'd get eternal bliss guaranteed and so would all my friends and family and everyone I cared about (and all non-human sentient beings and animals)... that would make me very happy.
Although I guess it's possible even then I'd be less happy because I may have intense frustrated feelings of impatience such as "I wish I'd hurry up and die so I can get my eternal bliss already! Sheesh. WTF ugh."
I'd probably become an alcoholic and eat less healthily and smoke and give myself lots of other unhealthy habits as long as no friends or family knew I was doing that to shorten my own life span just so I could die sooner and experience guaranteed eternal bliss faster (although they may be more sad if I died sooner in that manner I am not sure as they'd probably be as equally sad if I died later and if they died first I'd also be equally sad for them (although maybe not)).
And then of course if I'm right I'd be likely to 99.999999999999999% experience nothing after my death but I'd also have a shorter and less healthy life.
Yeah so in conclusion I definitely can't think of any form of theism in which I'd be less stressed and more happy, overall.
(May 11, 2018 at 3:15 pm)Hammy Wrote: There's also the parallel reverse hypothetical for atheists like myself... "How would you feel if you became a theist?/went back to theism and how would the change to theism impact your life overall?" (atheists are welcome to answer this).
...
If I became a Christian again, the way it would affect me would depend on if I was 'regressing' back to how I was when I used to be a Christian - before I developed an interest in psychology and the brain - OR starting from my current mindset...
If I was regressing back to my old state, the main differences I think would be in my mindset: I'd be more hopeful, positive, and resilient than I am now as an atheist. Mainly because of the notion of God's Will and prayer; I'd have an extra person/being to talk to and that was very comforting when I was a Christian. Prayer provided hope and comfort regardless of the outcome because of God's Will. In a way, my current Clockwork Universe thinking is pretty similar in the sense that I can still hope and question 'what will be' but the difference is, prayer gives voice to those hopes/questions, and the expectation that those hopes/questions alone will affect what will be and even if the answer is not what you hoped for or expected, it can still be thought of as for the greater good... God's Will... which is all very comforting.
If on the other hand I was becoming a Christian in my current mindset, then a lot of the above would be impossible for me... prayer and everything else would all have to be approached very differently, given my views on psychology etc. I no longer think in terms of hope for the future in that sort of way... not usually anyway; for instance, I kind of fell off the wagon in that regard a bit yesterday; on a whim I decided to buy a scratchcard for old time's sake and quickly got into a state of hope that I would win. That sort of hopeful state is a nice feeling and almost worth preserving in its own right... in the sense of putting a scratchcard aside rather than ever actually scratching it... as a hope for the future. It's very easy to get into a state of hopeful expectation like that, but a nice feeling is all it is... a flight of fancy with no bearing on reality; the card has already been printed and no amount of internal case-building of why I could, should, or deserve to win has any bearing on those already printed numbers. And for the sake of this hypothetical... that I had become a Christian again... I would still find it very hard to reconcile God's Will with free will, or affecting a causal chain like the scratchcard; eg if it wins, it either won all along or it is changed in some way to win... if it is changed then if that change is isolated there will be no record of it in the system as it were (or generalised to no record of it in the causal chain)... but if there is a record of it, then the causal chain has to have been affected to some degree, and some way along the line that's going to cause conflicts or bump into free will. So that is something I cannot reconcile.
So, apart from the occasional fall off the wagon like the above... one which I kicked myself afterwards for - £2 wasted on a fleeting hope... my current worldview does not seek comfort in that sort of hope. So I don't know how I would approach Christianity from my current mindset if I was to go there again. All I do know is, that in any of my quests for comfort these days, they do not come from seeking comfort in false hope or the feelings of hope themselves but rather in accepting reality... so in those times I lean towards Buddhism and other similar philosophies (only the philosophy of it... not the religious/superstitious aspects), rather than something like Christianity. That is, lean towards accepting suffering in the present rather than hoping for something in the future.
May 11, 2018 at 7:09 pm (This post was last modified: May 11, 2018 at 7:13 pm by Quick.)
(May 11, 2018 at 1:46 pm)Hammy Wrote: The following questions apply to both ex-atheists and theists who have always believed since they were a small child (and everything in-between of course). Here come the questions:
If you stopped believing in God, and no longer considered the existence of God at all likely or probable in any way,
(1) How do you think you would react emotionally?
and
( 2) How do you think it would impact and change your life overall?
Thanks in advance.
Talk about a loaded question!!!
1) That is a very difficult question to answer. I think because it would probably be a natural progression and something that would change over time, I might not really feel much of anything. I don't think I would have a sense of relief, but I also don't think I would have a sense of dread either. I think I would just simply accept it.
2) Another difficult question.. I think I would probably default to wanting another source of purpose in my life if for nothing else than to keep myself from killing myself since I would then think everything is pointless.
I think it's important for me to note that I have been a lot of places throughout the spectrom. I went from being a very spiritual Christian to being an atheist who believed in biological determinism. Now I think my view is somewhere in the middle.
But your individuality and your present need will be swept away by change,
and what you now ardently desire will one day become the object of abhorrence.
![[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/zf86M5L7/extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg)
