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A question for evolustionists
#21
RE: A question for evolustionists
(December 9, 2010 at 1:21 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Read Dawkins' "The Greatest Show on Earth" and then get back to us after you have some idea WTF the Theory of Evolution is all about.

Given that question and your level of understanding it would be roughly akin to trying to explain radar to a dog.

My thoughts exactly, also I would suggest reading The Origin of the Species by Charles Darwin as well.
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#22
RE: A question for evolustionists
(December 9, 2010 at 1:10 pm)16three-john Wrote: So I made a thread on morality, and a reply concerning evolution really got me thinking...If evolution got us humans where we are today, why didn't all animals keep evolving until they're humans?

Evolution has no goals, it's change over time driven by selection pressures. Humans aren't more evolved than any other species currently alive.

Quote: Also, why are humans the last stop on the evolutionary train?

There is no last stop, the existence of homo sapiens through evolution is arbitrary.

We are still evolving, for one thing we're on average taller and (genetically)skinnier the closer you live towards the equator, that has advantages in keeping a lower body temp.

Quote: Why haven't humans evolved into 10 armed 3 headed super-humans?

Evolution doesn't work like that.

Quote: I just think that with so much body-enhancing things around today, that nature would have thought of it first, instead of its product (humans).

Nature doesn't think.

Quote: Again, no twisting of answers or preaching is gonna come from me, promise Smile

I'll take your word for it, but frankly it makes no difference. If your understanding of evolution is really that poor you're simply incapable of twisting answers enough to stump someone.
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#23
RE: A question for evolustionists
(December 9, 2010 at 1:10 pm)16three-john Wrote: So I made a thread on morality, and a reply concerning evolution really got me thinking...If evolution got us humans where we are today, why didn't all animals keep evolving until they're humans?
For starters, humans are not the ultimate product of evolution, because evolution is not a directed process towards some ulimate end. It is merely the summed result of all of the tiny little incremental changes that allow living creatures to make the most of their environment and the available resorces.
Quote:Also, why are humans the last stop on the evolutionary train?
Why do you think they are? TOE makes no such claim.
Quote: Why haven't humans evolved into 10 armed 3 headed super-humans? I just think that with so much body-enhancing things around today, that nature would have thought of it first, instead of its product (humans). Again, no twisting of answers or preaching is gonna come from me, promise Smile
Because nature doesn't think. Evolution is blind and cannot plan ahead. It can only deal with the present and only by overproducing babies which are winnowed out til the most suitable for a given enviroment survive to breed.
For example, a pair of breeding starlings will produce 12-16 chicks each year, if ALL of them survived to breed we would end up with a solid sphere of starlings the size of the solar system in very short order( instead of pigeons which appears to be the caseBig Grin).
No, most die before they get to breeding age, eaten by cats, taken by illness, whatever.
And THAT is how how evolution works, by massive overproduction of babies who's ultimate destiny is to be someones lunch.
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#24
RE: A question for evolustionists
(December 9, 2010 at 1:10 pm)16three-john Wrote: If evolution got us humans where we are today, why didn't all animals keep evolving until they're humans?
This question makes as much sense as "If all humans are related, why don't they all look like me?"

(December 9, 2010 at 1:10 pm)16three-john Wrote: Also, why are humans the last stop on the evolutionary train?
No, we're not the last stop; merely the current one. Evolution does not claim that there is even supposed to be a final stop. Evolution does not have a specific goal, with the possible exception of "adapt to your surroundings." It's too soon to figure out what the next stop would be; but, with human ability to change the environment to suit its needs, it's unlikely that we'll change too drastically in the next few millennia.

(December 9, 2010 at 1:10 pm)16three-john Wrote: Why haven't humans evolved into 10 armed 3 headed super-humans?
Let me explain how evolution works: It happens when a mutation occurs that turns out to be effective for use in one's environment, to the point where the mutants eventually thrive better than the non-mutants in the environment and, after several generations (a few dozen should suffice, but it could take longer), the mutants have effectively become a new species. So, simply put, since multiple heads and supernumerary limbs haven't yet proven themselves to have had an advantage (indeed, until relatively recently, "Siamese Twins" didn't live long after birth, and, only one person with three fully-formed arms has been recorded and he hasn't yet reached his fifth birthday), and since it's unlikely that two people with multiple heads or arms have ever bred (and even if there were two sets of conjoined twins that married each other, there is no record of a set of conjoined twins giving births or siring another set), the odds of them producing anything coming close to such "10 armed 3 headed super-humans" is very rare. For that matter, conjoined twins (the closest thing to multi-cephalic people you described) have a big problem getting around in the world and don't really have much of an advantage compared to most other "normal" people. Does this answer your question?
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#25
RE: A question for evolustionists
(December 9, 2010 at 1:10 pm)16three-john Wrote: If evolution got us humans where we are today, why didn't all animals keep evolving until they're humans?

Are you allowed out on your own? Confusedhock:
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#26
RE: A question for evolustionists
(December 10, 2010 at 6:16 pm)Darwinian Wrote: Are you allowed out on your own? Confusedhock:

Don't tease him Tongue
"God is dead" - Friedrich Nietzsche

"Faith is what you have in things that DON'T exist. - Homer J. Simpson
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#27
RE: A question for evolustionists
(December 10, 2010 at 6:19 pm)Shinylight Wrote:
(December 10, 2010 at 6:16 pm)Darwinian Wrote: Are you allowed out on your own? Confusedhock:

Don't tease him Tongue

I was being serious. After all, it's the only explanation that makes any sense Panic I mean, that's the sort of question that comes out of the mouth of a pre-school child isn't it?

Sometimes incredulity is simply not enough and we are forced to resort to astonishment!!

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#28
RE: A question for evolustionists
(December 10, 2010 at 6:23 pm)Darwinian Wrote: I mean, that's the sort of question that comes out of the mouth of a pre-school child isn't it?

Or a creationist... Wink
"God is dead" - Friedrich Nietzsche

"Faith is what you have in things that DON'T exist. - Homer J. Simpson
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#29
RE: A question for evolustionists
(December 9, 2010 at 1:10 pm)16three-john Wrote: So I made a thread on morality, and a reply concerning evolution really got me thinking...If evolution got us humans where we are today, why didn't all animals keep evolving until they're humans?

Evolution also got the dinosaurs where they are today (largely extinct) and the kangaroos where they are today. For the same reasons you question why the other animals evolve into our niche to become identical to us, i would question why we and other animals haven't evolved into the blue-footed-booby's niche (and become identical to them).

Quote:Also, why are humans the last stop on the evolutionary train?

I don't think humans are... would you notice the great variety of us? Short and tall, fat and anorexic, black and white, sugar-loving and sour-loving. However, we don't die off as much as we could be dying off (thank and fuck you medicine), so our 'species' isn't evolving along much of a clearcut way at all.

Quote:Why haven't humans evolved into 10 armed 3 headed super-humans?

That design is not currently viable without extensive modifications to our size and cranial capacity.... and even then: what would you do with 10 arms and three heads? There doesn't seem to be any particular use for the design, so it would be obsolete.

Quote:I just think that with so much body-enhancing things around today, that nature would have thought of it first, instead of its product (humans). Again, no twisting of answers or preaching is gonna come from me, promise Smile

We are nature Smile
(December 9, 2010 at 1:19 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: 1. There's no such thing as an "evolutionist" any more than there is a "gravityist".

I should hope people agree with evolution and gravity... so i certainly hope that there is such a thing as an evolutionist and gravitationist Smile

Quote:2. Evolution is simply the observation that life changes over time to adapt to its environment. That's it. There is no assertion that all animals will always evolve into humans. There is no assertion that humans are the end point. There is, contrary to the X-men movies, no evolutionary move toward mutant powers. There's no "more evolved" or "less evolved". It's just life changes to suit the environment, period.

Hope that helps.

Mutant powers would certainly help our race propagate and survive... so there is actually a correlation between "mutant powers" and evolution... but many of those mutant powers are either impossible or so far off that they may as well be. The more effective a thing becomes at surviving, the more likely it is to still be around to reproduce... so if a being had some sort of "mutant powers" that made it more competent at surviving (and did not nullify its capacity to reproduce, of course), it is not a farfetched conclusion that it would be more likely to reproduce.

Evolution is rather that the lucky life changes to suit its environment... and the less lucky usually die to the environment (includes the denizens of the environment). In some environments, a design such as grandiose horns on the caribou and moose are greatly effective at helping it survive and attract mates. In another environment... those grandiose horns turn the caribou or moose into a target of human hunters that covet them.
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