The fallacy of politicizing draft dodging. OP/ED

[Brian37]

I have never liked the argument of someone serving or not serving, especially when it comes to politicians. Both parties have thrown this at the other. Neither Bill Clinton or 45 served. Kerry and McCain did.

Trump is a vile pile of shit, but his lack of service isn't my issue. Kerry did serve and ended up apposing the war in Nam. McCain also served and stood up for the policy. But long after, while Kerry and McCain were opposites on that war, never held grudges.

The draft was a bad thing, not a good thing. I would have been fine with it, if the one going in had had the option of saying, "Look, I will be happy to serve state side, but if you put me on that battle field, I'd get myself killed or someone else killed needlessly."

Bill or Trump, or Mitt Romney for that matter. If you are going to say that they were trying to avoid death because they were afraid, then why would you want someone mentally unfit on the battlefield with you? It makes no sense. I didn't serve myself, and I'll be the first to admit mentally I could not handle it. But that does not mean I don't value those who can or did. It would be a wonderful world where no nation needed a military, but unfortunately we are a social and tribal species. I'd certainly prefer exhausting all diplomacy first and have war as a last result. But I am certainly thankful for those who did what I could not do in landing on the beaches of Normandy and defeating a monster.

Forcing someone who is mentally unfit to handle that kind of stress is stupid and dangerous to those who do end up on the battlefield. Lack of service does not mean you cant value the weight of of those who did serve. The ones I value are not the ones who go in with the attitude of revenge like some stupid Rambo movie. But the ones who understand that war is hell and should never be entered into lightly.

Obama did not serve Ike did. But both understood the weight of conflict, the toll of it and cost. War is not something out of a movie. I think most humans want peace. And while we cannot 100% disengage the world, it is also far to small for indefinite expansion by friend or foe. In an age of mutual destruction, war is now a hair trigger to a domino that all 7 billion of us should avoid at all costs.

I valued Kerry and McCain's service, not because I agreed with that conflict. Any conflict we get into is a policy issue done by our government, not those on the battlefield. And for those who didn't serve, just speaking out, your voice, your free speech, the thing they both defend, that is also a service.

[Anomalocaris]

There is something to be said for having a commander in Chief who may send men to die who has had the experience of being sent to die.

[Chad32]

There is something to be said for having a commander in Chief who may send men to die who has had the experience of being sent to die.

Yeah, I'd almost want anyone who says we should go to war to spend a few years on the front lines first. How many of these guys pushing for war in Iraq or North Korea were on the front in Iran?

[Angrboda]

It speaks to character. Something lieutenant bone spurs lacks.

[Brian37]

There is something to be said for having a commander in Chief who may send men to die who has had the experience of being sent to die.

By that logic, nobody should be allowed to drive who cannot build a car from scratch.

Again, trying to force someone to do something they cannot do is fucking stupid. Why is it having balls means you are blindly expected to be super human?

We do not look at any other job the same way. If you don't have a pilot's licence you don't get to fly a plane. Some people, are afraid of heights so would it make sense to force them to be pilots? 

By that logic because I didn't serve I cant be thankful for those who did serve. Nonsense.

The key isn't serving or not serving. The key is making sure those who do serve can handle it.

That makes no sense. If we only elect those who serve, then all we are really doing is making the military our rulers. The west is governed by the citizens, and while those with military service are allowed to run for office, it is not an oath requirement to hold office. If it were, we'd be nothing but a military state.

We've had lots of great presidents who DID NOT serve whom at the same time understood the weight and cost of conflict.

The reason to hate Trump has nothing to do with his service or lack of service. 

If you do serve in the military yes, that makes sense that the leaders in the military should have combat experience. But in politics, civilians who didn't serve are allowed to hold office too. When it comes to the House and Senate and oval office, we have things like advise and consent, and cabinet members and the pentagon and oversight committees that act as the advice to the President and to Congress. Is it perfect? No, but we are also not a military run state either.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Brian, you started off with a false equivalence there.

[Brian37]

There is something to be said for having a commander in Chief who may send men to die who has had the experience of being sent to die.

Yeah, I'd almost want anyone who says we should go to war to spend a few years on the front lines first. How many of these guys pushing for war in Iraq or North Korea were on the front in Iran?

You know who else forces service on it's population? China and North Korea. 

There is no service requirement to hold public office. If you can find that oath in the oath of office of the Constitution, I will concede. But you will not find it.

Now again, forcing someone into combat who is not mentally fit is fucking stupid. If I ran a platoon I would want to make sure that every person in it could handle it. Putting someone on the battlefield who is not fit, gets people killed.

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It speaks to character.  Something lieutenant bone spurs lacks.

Bill avoided the draft too. Please go back and re read the OP.

It makes no sense to me to put anyone IN ANY JOB they cannot handle, combat or not.

Humans are not super heros. It is great that we have things like doctors, EMTs and police and fireman and military, but male or female, not everyone is cut out to do those things.

Just like you would not want a janitor attempting neurosurgery. We need janitors, sure, but I also would not want  a doctor trying to fix the transmission of my car because they are not a trained mechanic.

And since there is no requirement in the oath of office mandating service in order to hold public office, this argument is moot.

We have never been a military ruled state just because we have a military or that military service people like McCain or Tammy Duckworth went on to serve in office.

Please do not make this an either or proposition. To me it depends on the politician, as an individual, not their service or lack of service.

[Minimalist]

There is something to be said for having a commander in Chief who may send men to die who has had the experience of being sent to die.

The problem there is that you then require a limitless string of wars to keep your C-in-C with battlefield experience.

Besides, how do you account for someone like Lindsey Graham?  Sure, he was an "officer" in the Judge Advocate's office and he spent his active duty career in Germany defending, most notably, pilots accused of using marijuana.  There is no bigger warmonger in the Senate than Graham but exactly where is his experience of being sent to die?

[Brian37]

There is something to be said for having a commander in Chief who may send men to die who has had the experience of being sent to die.

The problem there is that you then require a limitless string of wars to keep your C-in-C with  battlefield experience.

Besides, how do you account for someone like Lindsey Graham?  Sure, he was an "officer" in the Judge Advocate's office and he spent his active duty career in Germany defending, most notably, pilots accused of using marijuana.  There is no bigger warmonger in the Senate than Graham but exactly where is his experience of being sent to die?

Thank you. service does not insure that you understand the weight of war. Ike did understand, but others who also served are warmongers. Others who served are not warmongers. Some who didn't serve are warmongers. Others who did serve are not warmongers. So with politicians it can only be taken on a case by case basis.

[Angrboda]

Saavik: Permission to speak freely, sir?
Kirk: Granted.
Saavik: I do not believe this was a fair test of my command abilities.
Kirk: And why not?
Saavik: Because... there was no way to win.
Kirk: A no-win situation is a possibility every commander may face. Has that never occurred to you?
Saavik: No, sir, it has not.
Kirk: And how we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life, wouldn't you say?
Saavik: As I indicated, Admiral, that thought had not occurred to me.
Kirk: Well, now you have something new to think about. Carry on.