Back to the beginning: the cave

[Kitan Etos]

[purplepurpose]

It's really hard to torture your mind for a few decades in the name of invisible heavenly currency. It's much easier to let go of such mind torture. Theists reality is a legitimized slavery and that's one of the most mind f**** things there are.

[Kitan Etos]

Did some editing of the original post.

[robvalue]

I agree, theists are trapped in a cave of sorts. Some more than others.

Escaping that cave still leaves us in a larger cave, one from which I can never see any way out. We can't directly experience reality, because any information we get must go through at least one filter, most likely several, before we can interpret it. At most we can model our observations of reality as accurately as possible.

[Kitan Etos]

I agree, theists are trapped in a cave of sorts. Some more than others.

Escaping that cave still leaves us in a larger cave, one from which I can never see any way out. We can't directly experience reality, because any information we get must go through at least one filter, most likely several, before we can interpret it. At most we can model our observations of reality as accurately as possible.

I disagree.

Of what filters can you adequately describe?

[robvalue]

Our senses pick up information, convert it into electrical impulses, which then get sent to our brain, which analyses it and produces our experiences. So our experience is twice removed from the initial information. We'd have exactly the same experience from a fake source which could replicate those initial impulses. We couldn't tell the difference.

[Kitan Etos]

Our senses pick up information, convert it into electrical impulses, which then get sent to our brain, which analyses it and produces our experiences. So our experience is twice removed from the initial information. We'd have exactly the same experience from a fake source which could replicate those initial impulses. We couldn't tell the difference.

You've certainly provided some words, but nothing concrete. Try harder.

[robvalue]

Our senses pick up information, convert it into electrical impulses, which then get sent to our brain, which analyses it and produces our experiences. So our experience is twice removed from the initial information. We'd have exactly the same experience from a fake source which could replicate those initial impulses. We couldn't tell the difference.

You've certainly provided some words, but nothing concrete.  Try harder.

What constitutes concrete, in your estimation?

[Kitan Etos]

What constitutes concrete, in your estimation?

Something that doesn't resemble word salad. Sorry, but even we atheists are not free from it's green grasp.

What I want is an example: concrete means providing a proper example.

[robvalue]

I gave what I believe to be a very accurate and scientifically defensible model of how our brains end up producing our experiences. I don't know what else to tell you, so I'll leave it there.