Political Correctness

[SteelCurtain]

To be fair, he was eventually exonerated, after about a year of deliberations, where presumably, there were long stretches of time where nobody on the academic board thought "You know, maybe the accusation against Tumin doesn't make any goddamn sense. I mean, if it's racist, he would have to mean 'Are they real or are they black?' I mean, I know logic doesn't usually enter into racism, but even with that in mind, would you even imagine anyone racist saying something like 'Black people don't actually exist?'"

But see here's the problem---it's taking the outliers (and more to the point taking something that happened in the 1980's and relating it to the conversation about political correctness as it exists today)--- and pointing to them as evidence that political correctness has gone too far. Yes, in any culture there are examples of inequities. There are examples of bad shit happening to people who don't deserve it. That should be reconciled, and even in this case, it was. I imagine that some irreparable damage was done to this man's reputation, and that is unconscionable. There will always be people who take it too far.

The pendulum always finds its equilibrium. The overwhelming majority of "PC" cases are people being shitty in public. The overwhelming majority of backlash is verbal and has no real consequence other than volume.

As it should be.

[Rev. Rye]

Or that it’s pointing out that it CAN go too far and that it can easily go from being a means of enlightening people to just becoming a weapon used at the first sign of a poorly worded statement without thinking things through any more than the target did. It can be used as a force for good or for ill. Fritz Lang in Metropolis said “the mediator between the hands and head must be the heart.” I say the heart and head need to work together if we want to reasonably expect anything to be done.

[The Valkyrie]

Depends. I'm generally in favour of it until they start referring to genocide as "ethnic cleansing".

It's fucking genocide.

[SteelCurtain]

Or that it’s pointing out that it CAN go too far and that it can easily go from being a means of enlightening people to just becoming a weapon used at the first sign of a poorly worded statement without thinking things through any more than the target did. It can be used as a force for good or for ill. Fritz Lang in Metropolis said “the mediator between the hands and head must be the heart.” I say the heart and head need to work together if we want to reasonably expect anything to be done.

I think we agree. It can absolutely go too far.

I don't think the outliers heavily inform the central idea, however.

[Rev. Rye]

Or that it’s pointing out that it CAN go too far and that it can easily go from being a means of enlightening people to just becoming a weapon used at the first sign of a poorly worded statement without thinking things through any more than the target did. It can be used as a force for good or for ill. Fritz Lang in Metropolis said “the mediator between the hands and head must be the heart.” I say the heart and head need to work together if we want to reasonably expect anything to be done.

I think we agree. It can absolutely go too far.

I don't think the outliers heavily inform the central idea, however.

Perhaps, but if they rely more on emotion than actual facts, the central idea can lead to the outliers with a depressing ease. The solution? Learn to rely as much on reason and empirical facts as on emotion when making moral judgments.

---

Depends. I'm generally in favour of it until they start referring to genocide as "ethnic cleansing".

It's fucking genocide.

Technically, “ethnic cleansing” and genocide are two different concepts.

The UN definition of Ethnic Cleansing: "rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove from a given area persons of another ethnic or religious group"

The UN definition of genocide: "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part ; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and]
forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

These are, in fact, separate concepts, though I think ethnic cleansing may actually encompass genocide (among many other things).

You may say “that doesn’t make it any better.” To this I say “No fucking shit. Of course it doesn’t.” They’re still crimes against humanity and major human rights violations. But “ethnic cleansing” isn’t necessarily a far right euphemism for genocide. It may have started out that way in the Yugoslav Wars, but, over the years, it has developed its own meaning.

[Cecelia]

Political Correctness is just a term Republicans use when they want to continue being bigoted without consequences.

[paulpablo]

I voted for no and pretty much for the reasons that I think have been alluded to by captain.

I don't want to live my life as if in being watched from above by some godlike HR department.

Me and my friends talk shit to each other all the time in an unpolitically correct way.

The times when people are politically incorrect and it's an issue are situations where the political correctness wasn't a problem, there was something else that was a bigger problem.

[no one]

I am against it! I mean, I am not out to purposely hurt anyone's feelings. However, I'm not going to hold back how I feel just to save you a little embarrassment, or because you're uncomfortable with it.

[vulcanlogician]

Political Correctness is about more than just not dropping N-bombs. If it were just that, then basically everyone is succeeding at being politically correct already.

Oh..are they...........

Y'know, I gotta agree with Khem's sentiment here. There are fucking racists still around. Period. This post-racial bullshit is from fantasyland. It's like telling people in the sharecropping south "IDK what the problem is. The emancipation proclamation has been signed". I'm not saying that we aren't moving in that direction. We are. But a dusty old building often stands long after it has been vacated.

"Woe to the bringers of the wrecking ball!" The racists cry, trying to get non-racists to sing wit them in unison. Fuck 'em. If someone fought to keep slaves in bondage, pull their statues down. Their empire has long fallen. If you like the statue, put it up in a museum somewhere-- not on the statehouse lawn.

But I wouldn't say I'm pro-PC or anything. Just not "anti." I'm a huge fan of halloween, so I don't understand the shit about halloween costumes. Sure something overtly racist needs to go, but I'd like to take inspiration from anywhere in the world when choosing a costume to put on. Not an issue everywhere, but it is on college campuses. Complete with administrative action, and emails preemptively warning everybody. Someone mentioned microaggressions. This shit is annoying, too. Just as Khem insinuated before: there are plenty of racists still around. But (in my experience) people who are not remotely racist are actually bothered to have to deal with this microaggressions shit. My N-bomb dropping neighbors complain about hearing about microaggressions on TV but NONE of them have had to deal with it in person, workplace or otherwise.

So I guess my advice to the hardcore PCers is: You've got the right idea, but you're aim is WAY off. You are carpet bombing a bunch of people who agree with you, while the enemy hides off in the hills, keeping to guerilla tactics.

[brewer]

Well shit, there goes any last vestige of my white privilege.

I'm still gonna turn the hose on the little fuckers.