Evidence for a god. Do you have any? Simplified arguments version.

[tackattack]

I would like to thank purple for a civil and interesting discussion where we reached some common ground and ended up agreeing to disagree.

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Why do you think that finite sinners can earn endless torture.

because souls are eternal and individually responsible for the consequences of their actions.
So would you like to just have a PM discussion or an informal debate? I'd like to personally have an informal debate. We can limit it to simple responses through word count and no sources. It can be just you and me or a panel if you'd prefer. What are your thoughts on having a debate?

PM better.
Why can't hell be finite, just as souls actions?

If Heaven is the only eternal thing that exists (except souls) and everything else ends, then there is no choice for an eternal soul other than heaven. Since I believe God gave us choice, there has to be an option or it wouldn't be a choice. The options given are Heaven and Hell. Having a finite hell wouldn't not be a real choice, IMO.
If you just want to discuss it only via PM that's fine, it can be done in the forums, but for clarity if you'd prefer it here, may I have permission to post the conversation at a later date?

Post it. You don't know how afterlife works, neither I do. Bible could be man made.

Correct neither of us knows anything outside of our subjective reality and an afterlife is outside of our observable and measurable proofs.
The Bible most assuredly is man made. I don't dispute either of those claims.

That's what atheist would say.

Apparently that's what a theist would say as well since I'm a theist. So I guess we've reached some common ground! How exciting. Any other questions I can answer for you?

Why then you previously told that hell is a just place for sinners, if at the same time you realize that it might not even exist?

I don't know with evidence that Hell exists because I don't know and can't perceive infinite things in my subjective little monkey brain. I believe Hell exists because I believe the Bible is true.
 For intent: In the Bible Hell is described as a place meant for Satan and his fallen angels in a pit of everlasting fire.
 For causality and culpability: People have free will and choice via the gift of volition. If you choose not to get into Heaven then you are choosing the only other alternative, Hell.

Your belief to me is like belief in Harry Potter where you seriously want to discuss the best spells or elder wand. It sounds insane to me.

Your belief to me is like belief in Harry Potter where you seriously want to discuss the best spells or elder wand. It sounds insane to me.

 I understand our beliefs are different and you probably do feel I'm insane. That was not a question though, that was an incorrect statement. You wanted to discuss/question the best spells and elder wands, I just wanted to answer some questions and I feel I answered all your points with my perspective. Is there anything else  you have a question about?

 I understand our beliefs are different and you probably do feel I'm insane. That was not a question though, that was an incorrect statement. You wanted to discuss/question the best spells and elder wands, I just wanted to answer some questions and I feel I answered all your points with my perspective. Is there anything else  you have a question about?

You could be wrong on your beliefs and there is no eternal afterlife, at least for those who are outraged by it. Or I could be wrong and there is a torture of some sort.
Still, no matter what you say, I still want to believe that I will die sooner or later permanently and there will be no insane Magical afterlife adventures.

You could be wrong on your beliefs and there is no eternal afterlife, at least for those who are outraged by it. Or I could be wrong and there is a torture of some sort.
Still, no matter what you say, I still want to believe that I will die sooner or later permanently and there will be no insane Magical afterlife adventures.

Yes we could both be wrong on so many levels. I can't and don't want to change what you believe, especially if it doesn't matter what I say, you are entitled to you belief. At this point I appreciate the discussion and it looks like we've reached some common ground and an impasse, so we can agree to disagree. Have a wonderful turkey day if you celebrate that!
-Dave

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[no one]

MysticKnight:
God sees us exactly as we are. Therefore God exists.

Cake exists, pie exists. Therefore, just desserts.

[tackattack]

I hate pie.. except lemon chess, desserts are better than deserts though. </derailing>