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Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
#1
Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
I want to discuss about the movements to make islam more tolerant and pacific.

Which do you think it would be more successful

A western sect more tolerant and pacific?

or

The slow "liberal"ization of muslims in the middle east?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_mov...thin_Islam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Islam
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#2
RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
(July 17, 2010 at 2:25 pm)Ashendant Wrote: I want to discuss about the movements to make islam more tolerant and pacific.

Which do you think it would be more successful

A western sect more tolerant and pacific?

or

The slow "liberal"ization of muslims in the middle east?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_mov...thin_Islam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Islam

Turkey is usually held up as the standard secular/muslim state, seems to be a lot better than most of the others but I stand to be corrected.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

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#3
RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
(July 17, 2010 at 2:29 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Turkey is usually held up as the standard secular/muslim state, seems to be a lot better than most of the others but I stand to be corrected.
This has been true in the past but recently the more religious elements of Islam seem to be increasing in power.

Regarding the origianl question, the best thing would be for all the Muslims to convert to Christianity, but I know that isn't going to happen.
His invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20 ESV

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#4
RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
I thought Turkey still banned Richard Dawkins' website? Doesn't seem very secular to me...
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#5
RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
(July 19, 2010 at 2:16 pm)theophilus Wrote: This has been true in the past but recently the more religious elements of Islam seem to be increasing in power.

Yes that is true but despite that, we have a secular republic no one even dare to change. And I hope we will get rid of them at next elections..
(July 19, 2010 at 2:16 pm)theophilus Wrote: Regarding the origianl question, the best thing would be for all the Muslims to convert to Christianity, but I know that isn't going to happen.
its just like changing their leash.. And your religion just as violent as islam. Do you think you dont have suicide bombers becouse christianity said so? NO sir, its just becouse your life standards are way better than theirs.. put bunch of christian same situation as Afghanistan or Iraq. They will start witch hunting in no time..

Quote:I thought Turkey still banned Richard Dawkins' website? Doesn't seem very secular to me...
Yes I have no excuse for our shithead government's actions. But know this Majority in turkey against such censorship. And that website banned becouse that dick, harun yahya sued that website like he did any other website which contains posts that insults him..
Quote:Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends.

Gandalf The Gray.
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#6
RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
Iraq was pretty secular before we fucked it up.
Here's a candidate. Syria!

http://apnews.excite.com/article/2010072...FR900.html

Quote:DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) - Syria has forbidden the country's students and teachers from wearing the niqab - the full Islamic veil that reveals only a woman's eyes - taking aim at a garment many see as political.

The ban shows a rare point of agreement between Syria's secular, authoritarian government and the democracies of Europe: Both view the niqab as a potentially destabilizing threat.

"We have given directives to all universities to ban niqab-wearing women from registering," a government official in Damascus told The Associated Press on Monday.
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#7
RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
(July 19, 2010 at 9:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Iraq was pretty secular before we fucked it up.

Here's a candidate.  Syria!

http://apnews.excite.com/article/2010072...FR900.html

Quote:DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) - Syria has forbidden the country's students and teachers from wearing the niqab - the full Islamic veil that reveals only a woman's eyes - taking aim at a garment many see as political.

The ban shows a rare point of agreement between Syria's secular, authoritarian government and the democracies of Europe: Both view the niqab as a potentially destabilizing threat.

"We have given directives to all universities to ban niqab-wearing women from registering," a government official in Damascus told The Associated Press on Monday.

10 years later, the truth made itself obvious, Syria doesn't seem very tolerant, excuse me but Assad and his extremist Shiite wing played the majority in the west for years; just to show their true extremist colors in war.

Sunni militias too build themselves a blood-thirsty caliphate-like state under the name "ISIS".

The majority of western stereotypes swallowed the bait and spent years and years clearing the name of Assad as a Liberal; while he used Hezbollah, Iraq and Iran's Shiite militias to wage hell on the Levant and butcher children with chemical weapons..

Of course, the Sunni wahhabi state in Saudi Arabia caused the world's most terrible genocide in Yemen since WW2.

If I was to judge the analysis of the west, I would say that it's the shittiest, most ignorant analysis of the Middle East. Yes; the west -along with Sunni/Shiite warlords- did indeed fuck the region.

That's only the aftermath of 10 years of ignorant childplay of the western intelligence agencies + mentally ill Arab warlords who became mercenaries for the highest bidder.

Advice: invest in normal people instead of mad warlords; west.

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#8
RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
(July 17, 2010 at 2:29 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Turkey is usually held up as the standard secular/muslim state, seems to be a lot better than most of the others but I stand to be corrected.

It does have a better human rights record than most other nations in the area, but the Middle East is one of the biggest hellholes on Earth now, so that isn't saying much. Especially given that Turkey, well, they not only haven't come to terms with the Armenian Genocide, but they've passed laws that mean you can go to jail for years for acknowledging it happened. Admittedly, the law wasn't commonly enforced (although one Nobel laureate was prosecuted) and it's kind of in limbo, and eve when it was prosecuted, I can't find any cases where the defendants were sentenced to proper jail time (the most I've found was 1 year suspended), but the fact that this is even a possibility is a big black mark against Turkey.
I was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad.

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Trump 2017: We're all nihilists now.
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#9
RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
(July 19, 2010 at 2:16 pm)theophilus Wrote:
(July 17, 2010 at 2:29 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: Turkey is usually held up as the standard secular/muslim state, seems to be a lot better than most of the others but I stand to be corrected.
This has been true in the past

Didn't Turks lock their wives in the house/ apartment and then never let them step outside until quite recently and perhaps still do it today?

For instance, there's a 1986 German film called "40 Quadratmeter Deutschland" about that practice.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#10
RE: Liberal Movement in Islam or Western Islam, the fight against islamic extremism
What makes Turkey remearkable is that is was founded as a secular state, as a successor to the Osman Empire, which was deeply religious.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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