HELL or not HELL?

[LastPoet]

I pointed out that to refute the existence of certain Christian concepts of hell, namely that hell consists only in separation from God, you would need to prove that the Christian God doesn't exist.  I haven't seen you do any such thing.  As someone who claims that hell doesn't exist, that would seem to be a priority.  Why haven't you?

Well, my sister that is a believer come that far, explaining the myth. She also says I am saved.


Hmmm, sure hope they don't put me playing the harp and watnot. do they allow 6-strings in heaven?

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Must admit that the question hasn't really crossed my mind but can you have one without the other?

I vaguely remember the 'Purgatory' thing but can't exactly remember where abouts such a grey-scape is supposed to 'Be'.

I'm sure lots of other beliefs have their versions of 'Good, Bad and Indifferent' after-places.

[Duty]

It seems that all those who believe in hell are all on holiday at the moment.      

I pointed out that to refute the existence of certain Christian concepts of hell, namely that hell consists only in separation from God, you would need to prove that the Christian God doesn't exist.  I haven't seen you do any such thing.  As someone who claims that hell doesn't exist, that would seem to be a priority.  Why haven't you?

You talk funny, for an atheist, Jörmungandr. 

[Little Rik]

It seems that all those who believe in hell are all on holiday at the moment.      

I pointed out that to refute the existence of certain Christian concepts of hell, namely that hell consists only in separation from God, you would need to prove that the Christian God doesn't exist.  I haven't seen you do any such thing.  As someone who claims that hell doesn't exist, that would seem to be a priority.  Why haven't you?

When I was a kid and I was forced to go to church by my parents the priests were saying very very clearly that hell is a place where sinners are burned which is far from the idea that hell is a separation from God.
These days some among the Roman church have in part changed the music by saying that hell is a separation from God.
Every day so to speak we hear a new story.
Tomorrow we may even hear a total different story.
Who knows?
In any case God has absolutely nothing to do with all religious dogmas invented by the clergy.
Why should I prove that the Christian God does not exist?
Christians and Muslims can go on and on with their dogmas as far as they like and at the same time believe in God.

[Angrboda]

I pointed out that to refute the existence of certain Christian concepts of hell, namely that hell consists only in separation from God, you would need to prove that the Christian God doesn't exist.  I haven't seen you do any such thing.  As someone who claims that hell doesn't exist, that would seem to be a priority.  Why haven't you?

When I was a kid and I was forced to go to church by my parents the priests were saying very very clearly that hell is a place where sinners are burned which is far from the idea that hell is a separation from God.
These days some among the Roman church have in part changed the music by saying that hell is a separation from God.
Every day so to speak we hear a new story.
Tomorrow we may even hear a total different story.
Who knows?

Who knows? Certainly not you.

In any case God has absolutely nothing to do with all religious dogmas invented by the clergy.

What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Why should I prove that the Christian God does not exist?

Already explained. If the Christian God exists, and hell is separation from God, then hell exists. You can't prove that there doesn't exist separation from God, so your only argument against this kind of hell is to prove that the Christian God doesn't exist. Get cracking, slacker!

Christians and Muslims can go on and on with their dogmas as far as they like and at the same time believe in God.

I could give a shit what you believe without evidence or argument. You think atheists are dogmatic. You are wrong. You think you aren't dogmatic. You are wrong. You think a lot of stupid shit. Nobody cares.

[no one]

This is for you, you great season serpent you.

[Little Rik]

When I was a kid and I was forced to go to church by my parents the priests were saying very very clearly that hell is a place where sinners are burned which is far from the idea that hell is a separation from God.
These days some among the Roman church have in part changed the music by saying that hell is a separation from God.
Every day so to speak we hear a new story.
Tomorrow we may even hear a total different story.
Who knows?

Who knows?  Certainly not you.

In any case God has absolutely nothing to do with all religious dogmas invented by the clergy.

What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Why should I prove that the Christian God does not exist?

Already explained.  If the Christian God exists, and hell is separation from God, then hell exists.  You can't prove that there doesn't exist separation from God, so your only argument against this kind of hell is to prove that the Christian God doesn't exist.  Get cracking, slacker!

Christians and Muslims can go on and on with their dogmas as far as they like and at the same time believe in God.

I could give a shit what you believe without evidence or argument.  You think atheists are dogmatic.  You are wrong.  You think you aren't dogmatic.  You are wrong.  You think a lot of stupid shit.  Nobody cares.

FOOL.  

Obviously Christians got it totally wrong and here I am not just talking whether they are right or wrong in saying that hell is a separation from God.
I also agree that a separation from God can be hell but this hell is not eternal and is only perceived by highly spiritual beings that are getting closer and closer to God but are not there yet or from criminals that once they die realize that their mistakes got them farther away from God with the obvious result that they will have to be reincarnate in some animal bodies or worse into matter.

Christians only believe in one life so for them once you are in hell you are there for ever.
No second chance given therefore this separation is eternal.

This is not what Jesus was teaching.
He was teaching right the opposite same same as Buddha, Shiva and Krishna.
The Christian God exist as it exist for everybody else.
The only problem with them however is that they lost the original message that is why they believe in only one life and eternal hell and eternal hell would be a real hell which in reality can not exist.  

[Angrboda]

......

FOOL.  

Obviously Christians got it totally wrong and here I am not just talking whether they are right or wrong in saying that hell is a separation from God.
I also agree that a separation from God can be hell but this hell is not eternal and is only perceived by highly spiritual beings that are getting closer and closer to God but are not there yet or from criminals that once they die realize that their mistakes got them farther away from God with the obvious result that they will have to be reincarnate in some animal bodies or worse into matter.

Evidence or GTFO.

This is not what Jesus was teaching.
He was teaching right the opposite same same as Buddha, Shiva and Krishna.
The Christian God exist as it exist for everybody else.
The only problem with them however is that they lost the original message that is why they believe in only one life and eternal hell and eternal hell would be a real hell which in reality can not exist.  

Evidence or GTFO.

[OakTree500]

From Rational-wiki:

"The hell meme developed from Gehenna, which was the name of the Jerusalem city dump. Gehenna was constantly smoldering with spot fires which never went out and Jesus taught several parables about the worthy going to see Abraham after they died while the unworthy were thrown into Gehenna."

All other mentions of hell are translation issues , This is backed up by:

There Are 4 Distinct Words Translated As “Hell”
Most of the confusion around Hell starts with translation error. There are four separate Hebrew and Greek words which are translated into the single English word “Hell”, despite having drastically different meanings.

1. Sheol (Hebrew)
   
   
2. Hades (Greek)
   
   
3. Tartarus (Greek)
   
   
4. Gehenna (Greek)
   
   
   

The English language is often very limited when trying to express certain concepts. A perfect Biblical example of this is the multiple Greek words translated to the single English word “Love”. Agape is a special version of love that speaks about God’s love toward humanity. Phileo speaks about brotherly love and Eros refers to sexual love or desire.

And just like “love”, the English word “hell” is unilaterally translated from the Greek and Hebrew words Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus, each of which have different meanings.

1. Sheol (H7585)
שׁאל    שׁאול
she’ôl  she’ôl
sheh-ole’, sheh-ole’
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: – grave, hell, pit.

2. Hades (G86)
ᾅδης
hadēs
hah’-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: – grave, hell.

3. Gehenna (G1067)
γέεννα
geenna
gheh’-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem

4. Tartarus (G5020)
ταρταρόω
tartaroō
tar-tar-o’-o
From Τάρταρος Tartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: – cast down to hell.

Below, I’ve listed the full 13 times “Hell” is used in the NASB translation of the Bible. Sheol and Hades are always correctly translated as “the grave” in the NASB and other more accurate translations, which is why you don’t see any references below. I’ve included those words in our discussion simply because they will come up incorrectly as “Hell” in the KJV.

You’ll notice that NONE of the above 4 words actually translate to Hell. The closest is Hades, which is derived from Greek mythology and is never actually translated to “Hell” in academically accepted translations. Sheol and Hades are both always translated as “death” or “the grave” in the NASB and other more accurate translations. And as we are about to see, neither Tartarus nor Gehenna can be correctly translated as “Hell” either.

In other words, “Hell” is NOT actually in the Bible.
But a claim like this warrants a worthy defense, and that’s why we are going to look at EVERY single time the word “Hell” is used in the Bible.
Using the NASB, we see 13 references:

• Matthew 5:22 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 5:29 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 5:30 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 10:28 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 18:9 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 23:15 – Gehenna
  
  
• Matthew 23:33 – Gehenna
  
  
• Mark 9:43 – Gehenna
  
  
• Mark 9:45 – Gehenna
  
  
• Mark 9:47 – Gehenna
  
  
• Luke 12:5 – Gehenna
  
  
• James 3:6 – Gehenna
  
  
• 2 Peter 2:4 – Tartarus
  
  
  

You will notice then that the full conversation of “Hell” comes down to 12 Gehenna mentions and 1 mention of Tartarus.

Tartarus is not a normal Greek word. Like Hades, it’s the name of a place/person in Greek mythology, appearing in writing 700 years before Christ as part of the Greek poet Hesiod’s Theogony. It denotes a dark place below even Hades, and accordingly, is the only one of our 4 words to have “eternal” torment inherently linked to it.

Even if you want to use Greek mythology to defend your views of God, 2 Peter 2:4 isn’t talking about people. It’s talking about where God sent fallen angels.
So if you’re keeping track, this leaves us with only ONE single word on which to base our Biblical analysis of the word “Hell”.


Gehenna.

[Info above from: http://www.brazenchurch.com/hell-in-the-bible/]

[Angrboda]

From Rational-wiki:

"The hell meme developed from Gehenna, which was the name of the Jerusalem city dump. Gehenna was constantly smoldering with spot fires which never went out and Jesus taught several parables about the worthy going to see Abraham after they died while the unworthy were thrown into Gehenna."

All other mentions of hell are translation issues...

Your point?