CHAOS!!!

[thesummerqueen]

Let me cut you off there, and give you some good answers

Can't you get all of those in other ways?

[Edwardo Piet]

In much more enjoyable and rational ways?

[Violet]

Why are those things good?

The first is good because without calm you have a lack of calm... aka: And that is very bad, or at least it is if you consider stampeding and/or depressed/paranoid people are not bad things.... all three of which I deem bad (though I note good and bad are personal value judgements, and these statements only necessarily apply to me).

The second is good for the same reasons sex, partying, and euphoria inducing drugs are all good... in that they literally make one feel good. And it is good to feel good.

The third is good because if we couldn't cope, we should all commit suicide or go insane in response to the likes of a papercut. That would be bad, thus coping mechanisms are good.

4: if prayer worked, and say... healed someone's cancer: That's good. Alternately, if it struck someone dead via meteorite: not so good. But the feeling that one is doing good is a good one to have.... if one doesn't have that feeling: it likely means that they are not doing good (as they see that).

You may think I was being rude but rudeness was not my intention, and would everyone find it rude?

Rudeness is often an accident, and no: not everyone would find it rude. However, do you find this rude?: "Why is it good to perform science? Because scientists say so? Why is science good? Because your textbooks say so? Why are the textbooks good? Because the textbooks are the written by scientists? What makes you think that the textbooks are written by the scientists? Because the textbooks say so and are supposedly inspired by the scientists? Why are they inspired by scientists? Because someone wrote that it was? Why did the writer make the textbooks that way? Because you believe everything you read? Why do you believe everything that is written? Because it says so in the textbooks and the textbooks are inspired by scientists?"

I find that very rude because:
1: the questions flow as if they were statements,
2: you 'asked' and then 'answered' your own 'questions'.... if you were curious you would ask a couple of questions, wait for an answer, think about the answer, and possibly respond with further questions. As it is...
3: it feels very accusatory in any way I voice them.
4: it appears to have been written in bitterness/anger/annoyance/spite/disgust/venom, or some other foul creature of the mind...
5: it comes across as intentionally insulting... wether it was or not.

---

Let me cut you off there, and give you some good answers

Can't you get all of those in other ways?

I don't understand 0.o? :S

[thesummerqueen]

I meant, can't you attain all of those things in ways that don't require you praying to an invisible sky daddy?

I'm not saying I don't understand what you mean. You use the prayer before meal example to promote a sense of calm - I'll give you another: At the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath, the wife of the house or oldest daughter lights the two Sabbath candles, draws her hands over them three times to "gather the light to her", covers her eyes with her hands and while she says the prayer to welcome in shabbat she's supposed to think only of the light of rest and peace. It's supposed to be the turning moment when you move from the work and strain of the week to the relaxation of the day of rest. It's a nice little ritual.

I get the same effect by sitting still and taking one breath in and letting one breath out. Or taking a bath. Or having a small glass of wine. Or going on a run. Or having a quickie. I mean, there are myriad ways of attaining a sense of calm without bringing something inherently religious into it.

[Violet]

I meant, can't you attain all of those things in ways that don't require you praying to an invisible sky daddy?

I certainly can... and I imagine most people could. Prayer is just another way to do it.

I'm not saying I don't understand what you mean. You use the prayer before meal example to promote a sense of calm - I'll give you another: At the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath, the wife of the house or oldest daughter lights the two Sabbath candles, draws her hands over them three times to "gather the light to her", covers her eyes with her hands and while she says the prayer to welcome in shabbat she's supposed to think only of the light of rest and peace. It's supposed to be the turning moment when you move from the work and strain of the week to the relaxation of the day of rest. It's a nice little ritual.

I get the same effect by sitting still and taking one breath in and letting one breath out. Or taking a bath. Or having a small glass of wine. Or going on a run. Or having a quickie. I mean, there are myriad ways of attaining a sense of calm without bringing something inherently religious into it.

I don't get the effect from praying, ritual, deep breathing, especially not bathing (though the warmth of the water does relax me a bit with how cold this house can be at times), win, running... fast sex usually just serves to keep me wanting.

There are indeed many ways of attaining a sense of calm without doing anything religious... just as there are many ways of attaining a sense of calm without physical exertion. I just think it's unfair to deny one form of calm to others simply because you don't find it calming.

[theVOID]

No question there min.

Or i could wait and be miserable until someone finds a flat for me and then thank god more than that person for doing so.

I'll pray to God so that you find a place to live since you guys won't do it. You don't have to thank me, though. Just let me know if my prayers worked or not as soon as you're ready.

Don't even think of taking credit for my hours of flat hunting for either you or your imaginary friend.

[Edwardo Piet]

Yes but Saerules, why are any of those other things you list, good?

[Violet]

Yes but Saerules, why are any of those other things you list, good?

The calming effect of deep breathing can be the change between a stable member of society and

That is good, as I see it. Those things are all made good because they can reduce stress levels in people, and in doing so are less people driven to desperation, despair, and depression. That means fewer crimes, a more stable and controlled populace, and a more competent and ambitious people.

I'd call them largely good for that reason. If ritual sacrifice or bloodletting or the like has the same effect in some incarnations, it would be good for the same reason. Even a brainwashing level of religiosity can be a good thing if it is reducing stress upon the vast majority of the people.

Good and bad are not independent of each other, but all of the things Summer listed are so much more good than they are bad that I think we can largely ignore the possible bad points of finding such things calming (ie: the possibility of drowning while taking a bath).

[Edwardo Piet]

That is good, as I see it.

Oh fair enough. So you don't have an argument for why it's "good" other than according to yourself or others who have the same opinion?

[Violet]

Oh fair enough. So you don't have an argument for why it's "good" other than according to yourself or others who have the same opinion?

Of course I don't 0.o Good and bad are, after all: very personal value judgements.

Do you believe there is an objective 'good' and 'bad'??? 0.o