origins...

[brewer]

I don't understand what this thread is about.

Coded language hiding behind a "discussion" in order to falsely play victim. 

He wants to claim some here are "discomfort" when what we are doing is merely rejecting bad claims. 

 He wants to use "deflecting" and falsely accuse us of using our sarcasm trying to paint us as in denial.

Brian, you're just too easy. Think about it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Attack puppies jump at shadows.

[Brian37]

Coded language hiding behind a "discussion" in order to falsely play victim. 

He wants to claim some here are "discomfort" when what we are doing is merely rejecting bad claims. 

 He wants to use "deflecting" and falsely accuse us of using our sarcasm trying to paint us as in denial.

Brian, you're just too easy. Think about it.

Think about what?

Not my problem theists don't want to consider that old mythology is just that. 

I am not uncomfortable in saying that, nor is it deflecting. I don't have a problem saying "That was then, this is now." It was understandable people wrote claims and sold claims without benefit of modern knowledge. But we have far better data now.

If others want to wade down an old Yellow Brick Road, not going to stop them. But this OP merely was HIS way of ignoring his own cognitive dissonance and his own discomfort in refusing to consider he got it wrong.

[tackattack]

No it’s about the origins of sarcasm. If people recognize any similarities that is completely irrelevant. I’m not calling for action or engaging sarcastic comments. Point in fact that My wife and brother -in-law just had an argument 2 days ago. It came out that she was really upset because his jokingly friendly behavior called her lazy or questioning what size pants she wears made her feel attacked . We had a very good group discussion on chips and sarcasm and their use in friendly circles. This is not a friendly circle is group of strangers on our forum. While his intent was not meant to be derogatory just to express his frustration or try and bring levity, it was about his intentional wording to cause harm but it was received as an attack.

Sarcasm is for the individual using it or an audience, that’s pretty obvious.
Any repetition of an act also fortified the inherent reasons.
Sarcasm also conveys negative attributes by definition.

The problem is in the reasons for using the sarcasm. Once the words fly out of your mouth you’re intent doesn’t matter because it is how it’s perceived. you either communicated you intent well or it was misconstrued.

It is bullying in this case because it’s unprovoked aggression. You can’t claim it’s a response to something when it is post 1 and title of various threads, unless you’re positing that you are butt hurt that somewhere else here or in life Christans picked on me first.

This perpetuates a cycle of martyrdom and bullying and actually galvanizes the underlying sides.


I still posit that sarcasm, with its intentional negative, galvanizing effects and when unprovoked are bullying and you’re welcome to disprove its intent, affect or classification.

[Brian37]

No it’s about the origins of sarcasm. If people recognize any similarities  that is completely irrelevant.  I’m not calling for action or engaging sarcastic comments. Point in fact that My wife and brother -in-law just had an argument 2 days ago.  It came out that she was really upset because his jokingly friendly behavior called her lazy or questioning what size pants she wears made her feel attacked .  We had a very good group discussion on chips and sarcasm and their use in friendly circles.  This is not a friendly circle is group of strangers on our forum. While his intent was not meant to be derogatory just to express his frustration or try and bring levity,  it was about his intentional wording  to cause harm but it was received as an attack.

Sarcasm is for the individual using it or an audience, that’s pretty obvious.
Any repetition of an act also fortified the inherent reasons.
Sarcasm also conveys negative attributes by definition.

The problem is in the reasons for using the sarcasm. Once the words fly out of your mouth  you’re intent doesn’t matter because it is how it’s perceived. you either communicated you intent well or it was misconstrued.

It is bullying in this case because it’s unprovoked aggression. You can’t claim it’s a response to something when it is post 1 and title of various threads, unless you’re positing that you are butt hurt that somewhere else here or in life Christans picked on me first.

This perpetuates a cycle of martyrdom and bullying and actually galvanizes the underlying sides.


I still posit that sarcasm, with its intentional negative, galvanizing effects and when unprovoked are bullying and you’re welcome to disprove its intent, affect or classification.

I don't know how much further I can dumb this down for you.

1. "That was then, this is now" is not bullying, nor is your crappy claim that both sides do it, "galvanizes underlying sides". I am not trying to be a martyr for simply saying the moon isn't made of cheese. You however are trying to be a martyr in attempting to defend old mythology. 

2. "Intentional negative"..... Intentional yes, but YOU assume it is negative because you refuse to consider the cold water we are throwing on your face, is a positive, not a negative. I am glad I no longer believe in Santa at the age of 52. Why should I have a problem with growing up?

How "negative" is it for you to reject Thor as the cause of lightening? 

If you want to view considering you got it wrong as being a "negative" that still does not make both sides equal in evidence. 

I see nothing negative in accepting that there is no super cognition helping us. I do see everything negative to clinging to outdated old claims. Either you want honesty or you dont. But I am going to give you an honest answer, sorry, but not liking my answers is your baggage, not mine.

[tackattack]

---

No it’s about the origins of sarcasm. If people recognize any similarities  that is completely irrelevant.  I’m not calling for action or engaging sarcastic comments. Point in fact that My wife and brother -in-law just had an argument 2 days ago.  It came out that she was really upset because his jokingly friendly behavior called her lazy or questioning what size pants she wears made her feel attacked .  We had a very good group discussion on chips and sarcasm and their use in friendly circles.  This is not a friendly circle is group of strangers on our forum. While his intent was not meant to be derogatory just to express his frustration or try and bring levity,  it was about his intentional wording  to cause harm but it was received as an attack.

Sarcasm is for the individual using it or an audience, that’s pretty obvious.
Any repetition of an act also fortified the inherent reasons.
Sarcasm also conveys negative attributes by definition.

The problem is in the reasons for using the sarcasm. Once the words fly out of your mouth  you’re intent doesn’t matter because it is how it’s perceived. you either communicated you intent well or it was misconstrued.

It is bullying in this case because it’s unprovoked aggression. You can’t claim it’s a response to something when it is post 1 and title of various threads, unless you’re positing that you are butt hurt that somewhere else here or in life Christans picked on me first.

This perpetuates a cycle of martyrdom and bullying and actually galvanizes the underlying sides.


I still posit that sarcasm, with its intentional negative, galvanizing effects and when unprovoked are bullying and you’re welcome to disprove its intent, affect or classification.

I don't know how much further I can dumb this down for you.

1. "That was then, this is now" is not bullying, nor is your crappy claim that both sides do it, "galvanizes underlying sides". I am not trying to be a martyr for simply saying the moon isn't made of cheese. You however are trying to be a martyr in attempting to defend old mythology. 

2. "Intentional negative"..... Intentional yes, but YOU assume it is negative because you refuse to consider the cold water we are throwing on your face, is a positive, not a negative. I am glad I no longer believe in Santa at the age of 52. Why should I have a problem with growing up?

How "negative" is it for you to reject Thor as the cause of lightening? 

If you want to view considering you got it wrong as being a "negative" that still does not make both sides equal in evidence. 

I see nothing negative in accepting that there is no super cognition helping us. I do see everything negative to clinging to outdated old claims. Either you want honesty or you dont. But I am going to give you an honest answer, sorry, but not liking my answers is your baggage, not mine.

---

I appreciate you taking the time to break it down for dumb old me (Example of martyrdom sarcasm). Aside from the previous statement, I am in no way ever attempting to intentionally be a martyr. But since you want to make this about you instead of sarcasm generally and didn't real back up those assertions I'll just address your points 1 and 2.

1. "That was then, this is now" is not bullying. Agreed. Bullying (as opposed to conflict) requires hostile intent, and that statement showed no hostile intent and thus no sarcasm.
Here is a simple example: "In the 1700's I was dumb and I believed the Earth was flat too". It is not my stance that the earth was flat and it wan intentionally aggrandized and purposefully inflammatory. It might be funny, have some truth in it, or whatever but it's different than saying "I never believed the Earth was flat". The latter isn't funny, bullying or sarcastic.

1a. to your point of reinforcing insecurities and perpetuating the underlying causes "since actions strongly determine thoughts and feelings, when a person consistently acts sarcastically it usually only heightens his or her underlying hostility and insecurity. "-link
1b. Your martyrdom wasn't really questioned but it is defined in someone who is putting on a wonderful act of suffering in order to get sympathy. ie. pretending to be something you're not or that you're unjustly being persecuted for your beliefs (link , link)
I'm not suffering anything nor have I claimed to suffer anything and I'm not acting or pretending to be anything nor would I expect any sympathy from anyone here for anything so I'm not even coming close to being a martyr. Specifically to the point about me, defending a point or a belief isn't being a martyr, but can be done that way. I don't believe I've appealed to fear, pity, ridicule or emotion in my life. If I have on here I wasn't called out on it. Please feel free to cite that so I can correct for that.

2. You are incorrect. I ASSume it is negative because of the definition of bullying and sarcasm. If it was just stating a case on either side of a conflict then it wouldn't be bullying, sarcasm or negative by default whether we agree on the premise or not.

2a. To answer ' How "negative" is it for you to reject Thor as the cause of lightening?' It's not negative at all. It's simply an unsupported supernatural cause.

2c. Martydom and sarcasm  and bullying as discussed, aren't about the truth of a claim. I can call you a fat heifer, and it can be true and offensive at the same time. You can call me delusion, misguided and stupid for my beliefs and that could very well be true and offensive. Sarcasm is not truth but an opposite stance, and martyrdom is about grandstanding a perceived wrong. Neither one are, by definition, an "honest answer". They are exactly the opposite of honest because by their very nature they are disingenuous.

[The Grand Nudger]

Maybe you're approaching the whole thing too negatively, tack, in that it does seem obvious that the sarcasm you're referring to is sarcasm leveraged at something important to you, which you experience negatively.

Maybe it's not about superiority or disingenuity or trying to avoid Some Belief™ or bullying...but that we need to laugh.  That laughter brings us relief.  That sarcasm..is funny.  Some of us find sarcasm, even sarcasm directed at our own sacred cows..funny.  Some of us even find our own initial reactions to that sarcasm (on full display in your op) itself...funny...maybe even funnier than the sacred cow was.

We laugh, we take some thing less seriously, we take ourselves less seriously.  In all of this a weight is lifted.

[tackattack]

I'm not taking anything "too negatively". I'm defining repetitive use of sarcasm as a type of bullying. I'm also asserting, like you, that the cause behind such is to take the underlying topic less seriously (at least one potential reason). That it is a release of nervous energy, compounded hatred or motivated as a strategic ploy regularly is exactly my point. I don't particularly care about the Xtian, Xmas, repulitards, orange idiots, labels in general because I don't take shit personal and I always take a value of the source. I'm simply pointing out that the underlying premises that either it's less important, that the other side is stupid, or that group X is laughable underpin serious biases that are detrimental to either side actually making social progress.

For instance I'd get probably more than a speed bump for constantly using A-sshole-theists in my signature and every time I spoke with them, or starting threads on the premise that I'm an atheist with ridiculous claims and arguments. I choose not because I don't find it funny or productive. It's not because I'm better than that or because I shouldn't based on the rules, but because I value my credibility and https://giphy.com/gifs/ubAZ725YVag36 is only funny the first time for me.

Listen I get it, you guys like laughing at theists, how original. I should take it easy and just laugh it off, cause it's not really important, they're just beliefs. I just think people are just as ridiculous to expect not to be called out on lies, bigotry, intolerance and bullying simply because they're in the majority here. Does that sound like something you'd support out in RL? Sounds like what a lot of theists do too so it's a human condition I guess <see previous point on productive discussion and galvanizing effects>.

[The Grand Nudger]

We also like laughing at other atheists..and ourselves.   I think that maybe we just like to laugh?

It's not really a "you guys/us guys" sort of thing...though I can see why you'd mostly experience it that way. Just as an example of the above, I love to employ sarcasm to peoples notions..specifically atheists notions, that they're ever going to argue some believer out of anything - that our obvious skill and competence..a uniform trait of atheists everywhere..as we all know..will produce more atheists, and, conversely...that all the atheist on this board were just waiting for the next brilliant apologist to come along and.... fuck me, we're all christians now.

[tackattack]

"We" also like laughing as well, at other theists and ourselves. I think maybe we like to laugh too... another incident of common ground...

I also use sarcasm, but I use it like pepper. A little can be great but a bottle might be too much.