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(December 13, 2018 at 1:38 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Years back - it was common for machinists such as myself to take the ISO course on geometric tolerancing - whenever work got slow...
We made a bit of a game of it after the third or fourth time taking the same course - and we decided that we needed to come up with a " mission statement" about the course - to explain to our spouses, friends and family, what the course was all about.
We came up with -
If you want more tolerance - you need a bigger hole.
.....
I realize now we were on to something ----
As these days - a goodly number of people I meet who yammer on about tolerance - seem to be some rather large holes,.........
(betting this joke doesn't get tolerated well...)
As a joke no it's awful
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
I think that tolerance is the usual thing - the willingness to accept the existence of opinions and behaviors we don't agree with. The allowable variation between standards.
What you're discussing, is carte blanche, not tolerance. That we can tolerate the sheer existence of assholes doesn't give them freedom to operate on their impulses or require that we allow those impulses into the decision making process...nor does it mean that we can't routinely point out that and exactly why they're assholes.
Tolerance - Stop being an asshole.
Alt Right Tolerance™ - stop calling me an asshole for being an asshole..waaaaaaah, what about tolerance!?!
Tolerance - Then stop being an asshole.
It's super simple.
Quote:Social conservatism is the belief that society is built upon a fragile network of relationships which need to be upheld through duty, traditional values and established institutions. This can include moral issues.
One can understand why a person who sees fragility in society would be slow to change what works. They can be wrong about what works, who it works for, and why it works - we can have that disagreement, that's the progressive disagreement in a nutshell. Juxtapose this against the politics of spite and resentment that defines the alt right and their current crusade against PC and tolerance, as well as our established institutions. It's not so much a disagreement to be had with the latter, as it is the necessity to completely excoriate their ideology - to deplatform and delegitimize it. Pushing it back to the fringe where it's incapable of causing the harm it has in the past and is currently doing. It will still exist, it will still be around, but it can't be given even the slightest amount of leverage. There is no conversation to be had over whether or not that ideology works, we already knew that it didn't but we're slow to learn...I guess.
So here we are, stuck in the dumbest timeline. More and more space purchased for that spite and resentment..and mostly because it seems to some establishment types that they might be a good ally in the struggle against their opposition establishment wing - and this is an entirely bipartisan arrangement, with the left granting credence and using them as the case example of the new right (which is becoming more and more true by the day, sadly) and the right handing them authority while trying to swing them around like an axe against the left to their own detriment, more often than not. The enemy of my enemy is my friend nonsense. If there were -anything- that the left and right could band together, as a civic goal..towards...it would be re-consigning that ideology to the dust bin of defeated enemies. Everyone has skin in that game. But no.....lol...nooooo.
Dumbest........timeline.
As to the definition of tolerance I agree with that. In your example though you weren't demonstrating tolerance you were correcting intolerance with an affirmative first liner. Might I suggest:
tolerance- Do you have an opinion?
Alt Right Tolerance™ - I would like to be an asshole
tolerance- congratulations you're an asshole
Opinions are like assholes right? Everyone got one and none are as good your your own. I think a lot of that polarization and deplatforming the others are deeply tied together. In a pluralistic society we should welcome new opinions and new platforms (to the extent they've bought in) because platforms aren't right or wrong, just different (and different is OK) and serving a different subset (and diversity is OK). The problem lies in emotionalism. Some of the worst sermons I've ever heard are how x people have it wrong and we're right. How do you change an establishment without emotionalism. Causing outrage and stirring a bees nest is how it's been done forever. I still hold that fighting war with war is as stupid as fire with fire, I'm just not sure I know a better way forward. We should all just let AI make our choices for us, that would be far more reasonable
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
December 13, 2018 at 10:10 am (This post was last modified: December 13, 2018 at 10:14 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Why should the platform and viewpoint we're discussing be welcomed? It's a regressive turd with absolutely no value whatsoever. There's no requirement in pluralism that we hug a bunch of brownshirts....and as I pointed out at the very beginning of our convo with reference to the paradox of tolerance..and then the example of the rise of global rise illiberalism, that's exactly how you kill a pluralist society.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
I'm not saying to embrace the turd. I'm saying participants should have some skin in the game, their viewed should be valuated, and included or excluded to the plurality.
My other pint was that you claim to be tolerant and show intolerance. If you start your debate with:
You're an asshole
You're not being tolerant and can't claim to be tolerant at any point later. Calling a spade a spade and a turd a turd is not being intolerant, it's be discriminatory. Justly discriminatory, if there is a reasonable value assessment.
That's another loaded word. Do you discriminate? Yes I do, every day all day, why is that a bad thing? I digress... OK back to work for me.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
December 13, 2018 at 11:16 am (This post was last modified: December 13, 2018 at 11:18 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm not trying to deport the assholes. That's the difference of MO between me and assholes, and tolerance doesn't mean that you can't point out that a person is an asshole.
We've already been over this. You're repeating the wambulance complaint, fielding a charge of hypocrisy...where none exists in the first place, lol.
-aaaaaaaaaaand now we're onto reverse discrimination of the funhouse mirror variety.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
December 13, 2018 at 5:27 pm (This post was last modified: December 13, 2018 at 5:28 pm by bennyboy.)
(December 13, 2018 at 11:16 am)Gae Bolga Wrote: I'm not trying to deport the assholes. That's the difference of MO between me and assholes, and tolerance doesn't mean that you can't point out that a person is an asshole.
We've already been over this. You're repeating the wambulance complaint, fielding a charge of hypocrisy...where none exists in the first place, lol.
-aaaaaaaaaaand now we're onto reverse discrimination of the funhouse mirror variety.
"It's important to be tolerant-- except of THOSE assholes. They need to made to shut the fuck up."
--thought everyone, ever, who had a strong opinion about anything.
Tolerance doesn't mean agreeing with those who already agree with you. It means getting along with those you find antithetical to your own world view, at least insofar as they don't violate the rules of the society you live in.
And by the way. . . you're an asshole too, and I very much doubt I'm the only person who would say so.
