Cisgender vs Non-Binary

[tackattack]

That's part of the problem. I don't get my validation from other people, I know who, what and why I am. I don't need someone else to respect anything about me. I'd like it, if it's deserved. I just don't see how you can deserve something based on things you can't control like your genitalia, sexual attraction or levels of melanin. The bathroom, changing space issue is fairly simple: Make all bathrooms/changing area individual rooms, with a queue line outside. That's what people want, they want everything to feel like home where they can crap in peace and read the paper or no one sees their junk out.
I can be sensitive to another person's feelings but I don't have to respect them. Bottom line (to the OP), if it's not a single bathroom, we should have a picture of a Cock on the men's and a vagina on the women's. If you have this you can go in. If you have both or neither feel free to choose the cleanest. Changing an entire infrastructure system (safe rooms like toilets, changing areas, etc.) based on a very, very small minority seems a little preposterous. I can respect people's wants in relation to their gender personally, but institutionally; frankly I don't give a rats ass what your sexual preferences or gender identity are. I just don't want a hanging peepee in an area my daughter is changing in. It doesn't matter where on the scale of gender you feel you are.

[Acrobat]

I just don't want a hanging peepee in an area my daughter is changing in. It doesn't matter where on the scale of gender you feel you are.

How about vageys in the area your son is changing in?

It seems to me if a vagey walks into a men’s room, no one real cares, but if a peepee walks into a girls room people are up in arms, ready to burn you at the stake.

This seems to be based on the fact that pee pees are marginally more likely to be up to nefarious purposes that vageys, and our negatively biases tend to overestimate the threat

[Amarok]

I just don't want a hanging peepee in an area my daughter is changing in. It doesn't matter where on the scale of gender you feel you are

Why ? are you convinced everyone with a dick has evil intentions ? That's kind of misandrist and why is a your daughter seeing a vigina  any better  or your son seeing a cock ? I highly doubt the sight of gentiles will traumatize anyone .

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And your concepts of respect seem very off

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"safe spaces" aren't separated by gender, they're separated by sex.

So?

The policy wasn't designed to keep a gender or sexual preference separate.

So?

It was because generally, vajayjay and diock should be separated when they're being exposed was the puritanical norm.

An outdated norm 

Which was/is evidenced by an entire genre of public bathroom porn going on. If the objective were to separate our genders or sexual preference, there would be far too many "types" of "safe places" so a gender neutral place was called for

If your referring to stalking that's still illegal no matter what and the number of bathrooms needed does not refute the point if were going to say offense is a justification for keeping them separate what other offences should we consider .

[TaraJo]

The only situations were it might matter to me, is if there's some rights or privileges extended to non-binary people such as myself, but not to cisgender people, particularly for conveniences. Like I might use my veteran card for discounts on groceries, because I am a veteran.

Wow.  I picked a hell of a time to come back.

If anything, I think you'll find the opposite is true.  You'll be getting the shaft from society in general because you don't fit into some nice, neat little box for their sake.  True story, I had a friend in Houston who is intersex.  When he was in high school, the administration told him he had one bathroom in the entire school he could use (and if it wasn't nearby when he had to go, well, there was an incident involving the principals potted plant).  Society has never liked people that don't adhere to its idea of normal.

But, then, I feel like that's a balancing act everyone, trans or not, has to play: adhere to societal norms enough to function in society while still being true to ourselves enough to maintain mental health.  

Truthfully, if you aren't cisgender, it can be a difficult journey.  The cliche is that we all just knew but, no, we didn't.  Maybe on some subconscious level, deep down we know now that it was always there but.... I mean, had I actually known earlier, I wouldn't have demolished my life trying to be some dude before transitioning.  But as much as I fucked up my life for 29 years, I never would have been able to put it back together for the past 11 years, either.  It's hard, but so SO worth it.  

Yeah, I've seen some people who identify as bizarre genders.  I've seen "astrogender" or "autis-gender" or "hydrogender" and other stuff like that.  Ok, so, I guess I have to admit, some people get a little silly when exploring their ideas of gender.  These are usually teenagers and, surprise, a large part of being a teenager is about discovering who you are.  I'm glad that teenagers today now have the opportunity to explore gender in ways that I couldn't; seriously, had I come out in 1991 when I turned 13 (god I'm old), I would have gotten my ass kicked on a daily basis for it.  So as long as you aren't being a jerk about it, explore all you want.

[tackattack]

It doesn't matter whether it's my daughter seeing a peepee, or my son seeing a vajayjay. I was just stating why the distinction was made, based on genitalia, not gender or sexual preferences. It was an anatomical distinction, not a gender one. I'm not against gender-less bathrooms, actually the opposite. I would really actually prefer individual genderless bathrooms and changing rooms, because I don't want my kids getting raped when alone. If it's in a boys bathroom, I don't care whether the person has a dick or vagina and what their gender or sexual preference is. Same for the girls room. It's impractical to change every bathroom in the world to an individual gender-less bathroom though, but I support places that do that, for those stated reasons, not to support or respect a very very small minority regarding gender.

Side note Amarok, When a married man and woman can't even use the bathroom around each other, what hope wold you see that random dicks and vajayjays would use a restroom together regularly? I don't think it's as outdated as you'd like it to be. I think the only solution would be colostomy bags for all! Where exactly do you think my respect is a "little off".

[TaraJo]

It doesn't matter whether it's my daughter seeing a peepee, or my son seeing a vajayjay. I was just stating why the distinction was made, based on genitalia, not gender or sexual preferences. It was an anatomical  distinction, not a gender one. I'm not against gender-less bathrooms, actually the opposite. I would really actually prefer individual genderless bathrooms and changing rooms, because  I don't want my kids getting raped when alone. If it's in a boys bathroom, I don't care whether the person has a dick or vagina and what their gender or sexual preference is. Same for the girls room. It's impractical to change every bathroom in the world to an individual gender-less bathroom though, but I support places that do that, for those stated reasons, not to support or respect a very very small minority regarding gender.

Side note Amarok, When a married man and woman can't even use the bathroom around each other, what hope wold you see that random dicks and vajayjays would use a restroom together regularly? I don't think it's as outdated as you'd like it to be. I think the only solution would be colostomy bags for all! Where exactly do you think my respect is a "little off".

Interesting thing about the bathroom concerns towards trans people.  I remember, way back in the 90's when the gay rights movement was in its earlier days.  Do you know what one of the biggest concerns to gays in the military was?  People were afraid of straight soldiers having to share locker rooms, barracks or showers with gay soldiers.  Seems to me those bathroom concerns aren't anything new, they've just taken a new form.  But here's what struck me:  since we did open up the military to gay soldiers, first as closeted gay soldiers and now they can serve openly, how often do we have some kind of soldier-shower-rape going on?  Seems to me those shower concerns from 30 years ago were unwarranted and it makes me wonder, are the men-raping-little-girls concerns about restrooms any more legit?

[Acrobat]

It doesn't matter whether it's my daughter seeing a peepee, or my son seeing a vajayjay. I was just stating why the distinction was made, based on genitalia, not gender or sexual preferences. It was an anatomical  distinction, not a gender one. I'm not against gender-less bathrooms, actually the opposite. I would really actually prefer individual genderless bathrooms and changing rooms, because  I don't want my kids getting raped when alone. If it's in a boys bathroom, I don't care whether the person has a dick or vagina and what their gender or sexual preference is. Same for the girls room. It's impractical to change every bathroom in the world to an individual gender-less bathroom though, but I support places that do that, for those stated reasons, not to support or respect a very very small minority regarding gender.

Side note Amarok, When a married man and woman can't even use the bathroom around each other, what hope wold you see that random dicks and vajayjays would use a restroom together regularly? I don't think it's as outdated as you'd like it to be. I think the only solution would be colostomy bags for all! Where exactly do you think my respect is a "little off".

It doesn't seem practical for many places to adopt individual gender-less bathrooms. But I question your argument against shared genderless bathrooms? 

I'm assuming you're not that worried about your boys getting raped in male bathrooms, and I don't see how genderless bathroom raises the risk of them being raped, by introducing woman into the equation? If anything it might even lower their risk, since woman are less likely to rape boys than men. 

Now this might not be the same for female bathrooms, moving to genderless, but it's still a low risk, because most people using the bathroom have no interest in raping anybody, lol.

[tackattack]

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Interesting thing about the bathroom concerns towards trans people.  I remember, way back in the 90's when the gay rights movement was in its earlier days.  Do you know what one of the biggest concerns to gays in the military was?  People were afraid of straight soldiers having to share locker rooms, barracks or showers with gay soldiers.  Seems to me those bathroom concerns aren't anything new, they've just taken a new form.  But here's what struck me:  since we did open up the military to gay soldiers, first as closeted gay soldiers and now they can serve openly, how often do we have some kind of soldier-shower-rape going on?  Seems to me those shower concerns from 30 years ago were unwarranted and it makes me wonder, are the men-raping-little-girls concerns about restrooms any more legit?

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Well looks at the same sex rape in prison's where there's gender segregation. Deviant rape. It doesn't matter if you're a man or woman. The military usually screens (or causes some to become) deviancy where the prisons simply put them together. Deviancy from what? normative behavior. Now not every deviant rapes but all rapists are deviants, wouldn't you prefer to go to the bathroom with the least risk of a deviant showing up with an intent on being rapey?

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It doesn't seem practical for many places to adopt individual gender-less bathrooms. But I question your argument against shared genderless bathrooms? 

I'm assuming you're not that worried about your boys getting raped in male bathrooms, and I don't see how genderless bathroom raises the risk of them being raped, by introducing woman into the equation? If anything it might even lower their risk, since woman are less likely to rape boys than men. 

Now this might not be the same for female bathrooms, moving to genderless, but it's still a low risk, because most people using the bathroom have no interest in raping anybody, lol.

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You'd assume wrong then, because my little girl can kick some ass, but my older macho son is a people pleaser. Men and women sharing a bathroom isn't going to happen in my lifetime. Not because it's rapey, but for the same reason some women don't poop or fart in front of their man. It's because using the bathroom and changing are private things. Until all sense of public privacy is gone, this won't change, and I'm not sure it needs to. I don't think it's that important of a barrier to tear down, personally.

[downbeatplumb]

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Interesting thing about the bathroom concerns towards trans people.  I remember, way back in the 90's when the gay rights movement was in its earlier days.  Do you know what one of the biggest concerns to gays in the military was?  People were afraid of straight soldiers having to share locker rooms, barracks or showers with gay soldiers.  Seems to me those bathroom concerns aren't anything new, they've just taken a new form.  But here's what struck me:  since we did open up the military to gay soldiers, first as closeted gay soldiers and now they can serve openly, how often do we have some kind of soldier-shower-rape going on?  Seems to me those shower concerns from 30 years ago were unwarranted and it makes me wonder, are the men-raping-little-girls concerns about restrooms any more legit?

---

Well looks at the same sex rape in prison's where there's gender segregation. Deviant rape. It doesn't matter if you're a man or woman. The military usually screens (or causes some to become) deviancy where the prisons simply put them together. Deviancy from what? normative behavior. Now not every deviant rapes but all rapists are deviants, wouldn't you prefer to go to the bathroom with the least risk of a deviant showing up with an intent on being rapey?

---

It doesn't seem practical for many places to adopt individual gender-less bathrooms. But I question your argument against shared genderless bathrooms? 

I'm assuming you're not that worried about your boys getting raped in male bathrooms, and I don't see how genderless bathroom raises the risk of them being raped, by introducing woman into the equation? If anything it might even lower their risk, since woman are less likely to rape boys than men. 

Now this might not be the same for female bathrooms, moving to genderless, but it's still a low risk, because most people using the bathroom have no interest in raping anybody, lol.

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You'd assume wrong then, because my little girl can kick some ass, but my older macho son is a people pleaser. Men and women sharing a bathroom isn't going to happen in my lifetime. Not because it's rapey, but for the same reason some women don't poop or fart in front of their man. It's because using the bathroom and changing are private things. Until all sense of public privacy is gone, this won't change, and I'm not sure it needs to. I don't think it's that important of a barrier to tear down, personally.

In france they have lots of dual sex bathrooms and changing rooms. I've used some myself.

[bennyboy]

Interesting thing about the bathroom concerns towards trans people.  I remember, way back in the 90's when the gay rights movement was in its earlier days.  Do you know what one of the biggest concerns to gays in the military was?  People were afraid of straight soldiers having to share locker rooms, barracks or showers with gay soldiers.  Seems to me those bathroom concerns aren't anything new, they've just taken a new form.  But here's what struck me:  since we did open up the military to gay soldiers, first as closeted gay soldiers and now they can serve openly, how often do we have some kind of soldier-shower-rape going on?  Seems to me those shower concerns from 30 years ago were unwarranted and it makes me wonder, are the men-raping-little-girls concerns about restrooms any more legit?

I think men as a group are a little bit rapey, gay or not. That's why we have Kevin Spacey in the same trouble as Bill Cosby.

In my own experiences as a young man, I'm happy to say I never got raped (well, legally maybe but only because I was a minor)-- but I definitely had to dodge a few unwanted dicks in squats, in the Y, and places like that. And at least one of those dicks was a man-woman trans person.

Personally, though, I'd be much more worried about straight men using unisex bathrooms as a play to perv on women than any other combination. Shoe mirrors, small cameras, and so on would be almost inevitable. Though that being said, my solution to that is for us to stop being a prude society and just let all that stuff be out in the open. There are millions of vaginas and penises on the internet-- whatever you've got, unless it's magispecial, really is unlikely to get spread around much, EVEN IF someone posts it online.

btw your previous post was probably the clearest, fairest, and best written one in the several threads about this so far. If you aren't already, you could be a great ambassador for LGBTQ.