Ban Intersex Surgery for Children: Yes or No?

[Yonadav]

But you're the one who wants intersexed issues to be decided by popular public opinion. So you clearly think that intersexed issues should be decided democratically, and you are campaigning for your side.

You are being disingenuous here, and you know that.

 

No, I'm not being disingenuous. You yourself said that the issue shouldn't be decided by a democracy among the intersexed. And then you keep trying to argue the issue as if it should be decided by popular opinion. You've ignorantly blathered about how it's a very complex issue, and then asserted that it has simple solutions. You watched a television show and then started imagining that you speak for all intersexed people on issues that you know nothing about.

[GrandizerII]

You are being disingenuous here, and you know that.

No, I'm not being disingenuous. You yourself said that the issue shouldn't be decided by a democracy among the intersexed. And then you keep trying to argue the issue as if it should be decided by popular opinion. You've ignorantly blathered about how it's a very complex issue, and then asserted that it has simple solutions. You watched a television show and then started imagining that you speak for all intersexed people on issues that you know nothing about.

Is this going to be your shtick forever? Seems like you have nothing to back you up and you're just fucking with me. Let know when you're ready to have an honest discussion. Until then sayonara.

---

So a list of organizations that condemn medically unnecessary surgery on intersex children:

Medically unnecessary surgery on intersex children has been condemned by the World Health Organization, three former US surgeons-general, Physicians for Human Rights, the AIS-DSD Support Group for intersex people and their families, Amnesty International, UN experts, Lambda Legal, the ACLU, two pediatrics professional bodies, and intersex-led organizations worldwide.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/09/17/us-m...-surgeries

[GrandizerII]

The problem is that many intersex people, after going through these surgeries when younger, experience various forms of trauma, seeing that society is unable to accept them for who they are because they want every individual to either be clearly a man with a penis or a woman with a vagina. And in addition, even parents report feeling regret later on when they realize they had been lied to by their doctors and thereby had to face the dreaded moments of confessing to their own children the fuckups they allowed.

The issue is complex for sure, but the solution is generally simple, if you put top priority on the basic human rights of the individual: let the intersex children decide for themselves once they have informed consent about the whole thing. It's not like parents always know what's best for their kids. And as for social pressure and such, intersex individuals shouldn't have to pay for the cruelty of society. People need to fucking learn to show support and understanding for these people and not let convention dictate how these individuals should be like.

The thing, I feel, is that this trauma can occur in both situations, children who are transgender are not easily accepted in society even in this age, no matter how much we say that they should be accepted! The reality that I see around me is that people are still being driven to depression and suicide if not outright killed for breaking the so-called gender norm of society. A child who has to face this might grow to resent not only their parents for not giving them a potential "normal" life, but also themselves thinking it is their fault for being different!

Well, according to Intersex Society of North America:

A lot of people think that doctors do “normalizing” surgeries on infants and children with intersex because, if they didn’t, those children would grow up to be very damaged psychologically. In fact, there’s virtually no documented evidence for that.1

Yup, you heard us right: there’s virtually no evidence of people with “uncorrected” intersex genitals suffering increased rates of psychological illness or social ostracization.

In fact, we do have lots of evidence that people who grow up with “uncorrected” intersex genitals do OK. Here’s some of it:

From this link:
http://www.isna.org/faq/healthy

[Aoi Magi]

The thing, I feel, is that this trauma can occur in both situations, children who are transgender are not easily accepted in society even in this age, no matter how much we say that they should be accepted! The reality that I see around me is that people are still being driven to depression and suicide if not outright killed for breaking the so-called gender norm of society. A child who has to face this might grow to resent not only their parents for not giving them a potential "normal" life, but also themselves thinking it is their fault for being different!

Well, according to Intersex Society of North America:

A lot of people think that doctors do “normalizing” surgeries on infants and children with intersex because, if they didn’t, those children would grow up to be very damaged psychologically. In fact, there’s virtually no documented evidence for that.1

Yup, you heard us right: there’s virtually no evidence of people with “uncorrected” intersex genitals suffering increased rates of psychological illness or social ostracization.

In fact, we do have lots of evidence that people who grow up with “uncorrected” intersex genitals do OK. Here’s some of it:

From this link:
http://www.isna.org/faq/healthy

I don't have any links to counter it, nor do I want to, but that research seems to be limited to a first-world populace and that too with only "dozens" of individuals, when the count of people with intersex genitals are much higher. I wonder what the scenario would be if under-developed or developing nations were included. In countries like India, third gender wasn't recognized legally till as recently as 2014, you can imagine how much social acceptance these people get over there.

Most hijras live at the margins of society with very low status; the very word "hijra" is sometimes used in a derogatory manner. The Indian lawyer and author Rajesh Talwar has written a book, titled The Third Sex and Human Rights, highlighting the human rights abuses suffered by the community.[25] Few employment opportunities are available to hijras. Many get their income from extortion (forced payment by disrupting work/life using demonstrations and interference), performing at ceremonies (toli), begging (dheengna), or sex work ('raarha')—an occupation of eunuchs also recorded in premodern times. Violence against hijras, especially hijra sex workers, is often brutal, and occurs in public spaces, police stations, prisons, and their homes.[26] As with transgender people in most of the world, they face extreme discrimination in health, housing, education, employment, immigration, law, and any bureaucracy that is unable to place them into male or female gender categories

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(Ind...continent)

Seeking corrective surgeries would be pretty darn hard when they barely have enough money to buy food, when doctors refuse to treat them at their chambers and when even government hospitals refuse them.

[bennyboy]

The only benefit to surgery at birth is that the child will grow up with their assigned identity.

But personally I think it would be much better to let a child grow up with whatever they were born with-- learn about it, think about it, and then decide as an adult.

[Sal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlRkLtKqSrY

[Silver]

You get surgery, you get surgery, you get surgery, everyone gets surgery!