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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 1:26 pm
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2019 at 1:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Making sense of fiction is the work of an editor, not a historian. Is it puzzling that the traveling miracle man that everyone had heard of isn;t actually mentioned by anyone? Yes, but since that's not the historical jesus it hardly matters.
We know that people hear (and believe) stories like that..all the time, and none of it relies on there being any actual travelling miracle man that everyone's heard of or even a man that no one has heard of. Mythical christ and legendary jesus are both uninformative as to any historical man. This is another point that historicists and mythicists agree on.
Historicists think that there was a man that stories were attached to. Who was that man? Can't really tell from the stories. Mythicists think that there was a story that men were attached to. Who was/were that/those men, can't really tell from the stories. That's it, that's the difference, and in neither proposal of the development of christianity and magic book is it exceptional that a miracle man wasn't noticed by anyone. It's only exceptional in the context of a fictional world that exists nowhere beyond the pages of magic book.
Imagine yourself having this same conversation about abraham lincoln, vampire hunter. How come nobody noticed he was killing vampires? Isn't that strange? It makes sense that people would notice it, right?
Or, for a more direct example. Who was John Frum?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 2:20 pm
At work.
(February 23, 2019 at 1:19 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Why is it that none of these sources even mention the existence of Jesus?
Maybe because even a dozen raving apocalyptic nutters wandering about in an insignificant patch of scrub didn't cause enough of a stir compared to all the other huge empire sized things going on at the time to actually BE worthy of notice?
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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 2:26 pm
(February 26, 2019 at 2:20 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: At work.
(February 23, 2019 at 1:19 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Why is it that none of these sources even mention the existence of Jesus?
Maybe because even a dozen raving apocalyptic nutters wandering about in an insignificant patch of scrub didn't cause enough of a stir compared to all the other huge empire sized things going on at the time to actually BE worthy of notice?
You take my breath away!
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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 2:35 pm
At work.
(February 26, 2019 at 2:26 pm)Jehanne Wrote: (February 26, 2019 at 2:20 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Maybe because even a dozen raving apocalyptic nutters wandering about in an insignificant patch of scrub didn't cause enough of a stir compared to all the other huge empire sized things going on at the time to actually BE worthy of notice?
You take my breath away!
Should I be using more emotes?
Do you have/need possibly a 'Ventalin' asthma inhaler?
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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 5:27 pm
According to the Paul's Epistle to the Romulans, Jesus had a portable cloaking device and switched it on whenever pagans were around. He only got arrested after Chief Engineer Judas shorted out the power transfer conduits.
Boru
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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 6:30 pm
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2019 at 6:33 pm by fredd bear.)
(February 26, 2019 at 5:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: According to the Paul's Epistle to the Romulans, Jesus had a portable cloaking device and switched it on whenever pagans were around. He only got arrested after Chief Engineer Judas shorted out the power transfer conduits.
Boru
And Jesu said to Lazarus "Come forth!"
Lazarus came 5th and was disqualified.
)))))))))))))))
And God said "let there be light!"'- And, fair dinkum, youse could see for bloody MILES!
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Simple, correct answer to a very old theological question:
Q How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
A: As many as want to
(angels are not corporeal)
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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 6:44 pm
(February 26, 2019 at 5:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: According to the Paul's Epistle to the Romulans, Jesus had a portable cloaking device and switched it on whenever pagans were around. He only got arrested after Chief Engineer Judas shorted out the power transfer conduits.
Boru
It ET really exists, perhaps they have a strange sense of humor; in any case, your hypothesis is a naturalistic explanation, albeit, a very improbable one.
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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 6:47 pm
As an atheist, I fail to understand why this topic stirs up such a hornet's nest of emotion.
Could there have been an actual Jesus wandering the Levant 2,000 years ago? Sure. The place was chock full of them at the time. The actual evidence is pretty thin, but I have no visceral objection to the magic book being based on a real individual, or an amalgam of several real individuals. All that gets you to is that there may have been some bloke or blokes stirring things in the Levant. Well, stop the presses.
Josephus is pretty much accepted to be a later forgery and Tacitus referred to some rubes out in the boonies, so that leaves the gospels themselves. Or does it? Because there are other surviving texts which didn't make the cut for the bible. Why? Because these cast a different light. By and large, atheists get interested when these other texts are introduced. Christians, not so much. They get all bent out of shape.
As for the mythicists, to me they seem more agenda driven. For whatever reason, they have a problem with the various tales being based on an actual person or several persons. I don't know why. Either way does not sway my atheism. So what if there was some bloke called jesus. There's millions of them in Mexico.
Of course, whatever jesus was swiftly followed by Eleazar ben Ya'ir for example. Another apocalyptic/messianic figure (about AD70) Strangely, we have a whole crapton of evidence for him. Obviously, it is because he gave us the whole siege of Masada, a high profile event that was copiously documented. This begs a question.
If jesus was doing such high profile things, why did Eleazar ben Ya'ir get documented yet he did not? The inevitable conclusion is that jesus, assuming he existed, didn't really do anything remarkable or worth reporting. Just another wandering desert preacher among many. Or a mashup of a few such wingnuts.
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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 6:57 pm
(This post was last modified: February 26, 2019 at 7:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Mythicists don't have a problem with characters being based on people..they don't even have a problem with the character of jesus as we see it in magic book being grounded in one or even many individuals.
It's an academic position on the development of a religious mytheme. Mythemes are interesting.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why did pagans not take any notice of Jesus?
February 26, 2019 at 7:11 pm
Pagans didn't take notice of Jesus because he wasn't dressed up as a French maid wearing fishnets.
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