Is God Altruistic? Is God Happy?

[Belacqua]

Scripture is clear that God has emotions. Otherwise you have to rule out His Love. 

I guess it depends on how we take scripture. 

The great Christian thinkers are pretty unanimous in saying that when they talk about God's love, they aren't talking about anything like an emotion or a passion. 

You are conflating Unchanging with unmoved by connotation at the least.

Not just me; I only know what I read. Augustine, Aquinas, et.al., are explicit that we use the words "love" and "anger" about God only analogously to human emotion. 

For them, reading the Bible in a "literal" way meant first identifying the genre of the chapter in question. Parable and analogy work differently than history.

[Rogue]

My answer to- Is God altruistic is no, that is not possible. Everything Yahweh does in the buy-bull is for his own pleasure such as worship by piss ants compared to His glory and magnificence.

My answer to- is God happy is no, I think it needs a psychiatrist. I am perplexed as to why God would even have emotions. Human emotions have a function. Love for reproduction and sanctity of life. Anger for strength. Guilt for self-reflection. I think you see where I'm going with this. Yea, I cannot reconcile how a disembodied brain would even exist even in the strangest of places in our universe. I am not trying to claim there is, I do not believe the woo woo. If somebody can convince me why the supreme being that existed before time and space has emotions, I might change my mind.

God doesn't have emotions, at least not in the way we speak of emotions, which result as a reactions to things, like seeing a newborn baby, or someone spitting on you. God is unchanging, so it would be false to say God feels one thing, then feels something different later on, etc.

We might use expressions that imply God has emotions like we do, but these are to be taken metaphorically, as a result of the limits of our language in our expressions about God. 

God's charachreristics  like Goodness Love, are statements about God's being, what he embodies. An expression like God hates sin, can be understand as sins reaction to God's love, like an objects reactions to being in close proximity to the sun, which implies not a change in the nature of the sun, just the object itself. 

When speaking of God natures an orthodox believer is referring to his eternal, unchanging nature.

It sounds like you are saying God cannot be pleased because God does not have emotions. Pleasure is an emotion. If you cannot please this authoritarian NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, then why bother trying?

How does sin affect God?

God simply cannot be omniscient if God has no emotions because emotional intelligence is a thing. If God does not have emotions then it necessarily follows that God cannot have emotional intelligence. Without that intelligence omniscience is not obtainable. It means humans are better than God because we do have emotional intelligence. That's why when we worship we want God to be pleased so He doesn't squish us because He is pissed off.

e·mo·tion·al in·tel·li·gence
noun
noun: emotional intelligence

the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one's emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.

[Acrobat]

God doesn't have emotions, at least not in the way we speak of emotions, which result as a reactions to things, like seeing a newborn baby, or someone spitting on you. God is unchanging, so it would be false to say God feels one thing, then feels something different later on, etc.

We might use expressions that imply God has emotions like we do, but these are to be taken metaphorically, as a result of the limits of our language in our expressions about God. 

God's charachreristics  like Goodness Love, are statements about God's being, what he embodies. An expression like God hates sin, can be understand as sins reaction to God's love, like an objects reactions to being in close proximity to the sun, which implies not a change in the nature of the sun, just the object itself. 

When speaking of God natures an orthodox believer is referring to his eternal, unchanging nature.

It sounds like you are saying God cannot be pleased because God does not have emotions. Pleasure is an emotion. If you cannot please this authoritarian NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, then why bother trying?

How does sin affect God?

God simply cannot be omniscient if God has no emotions because emotional intelligence is a thing. If God does not have emotions then it necessarily follows that God cannot have emotional intelligence. Without that intelligence omniscience is not obtainable. It means humans are better than God because we do have emotional intelligence. That's why when we worship we want God to be pleased so He doesn't squish us because He is pissed off.

e·mo·tion·al in·tel·li·gence
noun
noun: emotional intelligence

   the capacity to be aware of, control, and express one's emotions, and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically.

I think it's perfectly fine to say things like God is pleased when we do his will, or when we do good, or are kind, etc. and displeased when we doing things against his will, do wrong, etc...

It's not fine we take these expression to their literal ends, implying God feels pleasure one minute, and displeasure another minute, or that his nature changes, contingent on our actions, or in some way negates his essential properties. God is not contingent on us, we are contingent on him. God being eternal and omniscient, also begs the question of when was God displeased or pleased with our actions only after they occurred, or in his foreknowledge of it occurring, which he always knew?

God isn't a being like finite beings, subject to the finite changes of the universes and human lives. So statements like God's displeasure and pleasure can't be viewed as we might say of finite beings. So displeasure and pleasure are in essence the impact of Gods essential and unchanging nature on us, like the impact of the heat from the sun on an object. To borrow the sun analogy, we might say that Gods Good and Loving nature, allows objects reflective of goodness and love to draw near it, and objects not reflective of goodness or love to burn when near it. Like the sun God's nature need not change, but his nature impacts the objects not himself.

---

You make it out like God is a rock outside of our universe with your stance. Scripture is clear that God has emotions. Otherwise you have to rule out His Love. You are conflating Unchanging with unmoved by connotation at the least.

It kind of depends of how you're defining emotions, typically when speaking of emotions we're speaking of emotions in a finite sense, which is difficult to apply to non-finite being. 

It's also important to realize, that in the NT God is Love. This doesn't mean god is an emotion, It means Love is a form of being, not an emotion.

Love is essentially who God is is, it's not something god gives or extends, like a helping hand. Love is the object, not an extension of an object. 

We might express god's essential nature in in variety of finite expressions, but this is only because of the limits of our language, that we have to be mindful not to extend too literally, or else you turn God into a finite, and contingent being like ourselves.

---

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but doesn't the verse imply that God ISN'T affected or changed in this way? It says “For I the Lord do not change."

I was referring to the other verse in Malachi: "“Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated."

[Rogue]

I think it's perfectly fine to say things like God is pleased when we do his will, or when we do good, or are kind, etc. and displeased when we doing things against his will, do wrong, etc...

It's not fine we take these expression to their literal ends, implying God feels pleasure one minute, and displeasure another minute, or that his nature changes, contingent on our actions, or in some way negates his essential properties. God is not contingent on us, we are contingent on him. God being eternal and omniscient, also begs the question of when was God displeased or pleased with our actions only after they occurred, or in his foreknowledge of it occurring, which he always knew?

God isn't a being like finite beings, subject to the finite changes of the universes and human lives. So statements like God's displeasure and pleasure can't be viewed as we might say of finite beings. So displeasure and pleasure are in essence the impact of Gods essential and unchanging nature on us, like the impact of the heat from the sun on an object. To borrow the sun analogy, we might say that Gods Good and Loving nature, allows objects reflective of goodness and love to draw near it, and objects not reflective of goodness or love to burn when near it. Like the sun God's nature need not change, but his nature impacts the objects not himself.

No it is not perfectly okay to lie to people. The buy-bull lies about God's nature. If there must be a being that is an emotion, like love, then there must be a god that is hate, a god that is contempt, a god that is happy and a god that is sad.

I'm really feeling sorry for God not knowing happiness and joy. I did ask if God was happy and if I listen to you the answer is no God is not happy. God does not feel He is the feeling.

We call humans without emotion sociopaths and psychopaths.

I seriously cannot comprehend God as love itself. Love does not cause suffering as did God when he created all this per the bible. Gen 1,2, and 3.

Human's cannot really know God can they? WE are too stupid. Too limited to our planet. It is an ant trying to understand a human.

Goodness could never burn people in Hell. Goodness does not call for genocide and infanticide, approve of slavery, kill boys for mocking a bald man, subjugate women to men, create naked people then tell them be fruitful and prosper, love cannot be equated with forcing a family into breeding. That is not goodness, not goodness at all. It's almost like we live in a different universe according to Acrobat.

You did not respond to my comment about emotional intelligence. God cannot understand the plight of humans without experiencing emotion. This is why we have empathy for each other. You are saying God has no empathy. I do not want to be judged by a character with no empathy or compassion.


You also did not answer the question: How does sin affect God?

good·ness
/ˈɡo͝odnəs/
noun
noun: goodness
1.
the quality of being morally good or virtuous.

[fredd bear]

"I think it's perfectly fine to say things like God is pleased when we do his will, "

If that is so, the opposite must also be true. IE that he gets angry when he is disobeyed. There are
a number of examples in the Torah about what happens when god gets angry. He is capricious. Piss him off and he gets really vicious, cruel, and vengeful ,in fact quite psychotic in his wrath.

I've asked this question before, but no one has answered. How can an infinite god be offended or pleased by his finite creations?. Plus, he is omniscient, so knows how each of his creations will behave. The so called free will he bestows is an illusion.

Sorry, but really not interested in hearing the opinions of our resident apologists.

[Rogue]

I AM interested in what local theists have to say. I enjoy talking about this stuff.

[fredd bear]

I AM interested in what local theists have to say. I enjoy talking about this stuff.

 I also enjoy it, the first time

After a dozen or more times, not so much.

I think cdf47 holds the record at present. I suspect his repetitions about DNA and intelligent design are well past the 100 mark.

That thread is over 1000 pages. I finally concluded the OP is  either of exceedingly modest IQ or is a  quite clever troll. Since his posts are literate, I concluded he's smart enough. 

By process of elimination, I have concluded he is a troll and stopped feeding him.--and that's why I ask our resident theists not to comment. (don't mind Tacky)

[Acrobat]

I've asked this question before, but no one has answered. How can an infinite  god be offended or pleased by his finite creations?. Plus, he is omniscient, so knows how each of his creations will behave. The so called free will he bestows is an illusion.

He can't be, at least least not in way that's not radically different than how you or I, and other finite being be pleased or displease with each other. 

Our actions can not impact God, because an infinite being is not contingent on our actions, but they can impact us.

---

No it is not perfectly okay to lie to people. The buy-bull lies about God's nature.

It’s not lying though, just resorting to speaking of the nature of God via analogies, because the limits of human language, the limits of the way in which finite beings like ourself can speak of God, and eternal and infinite being.

If there must be a being that is an emotion, like love, then there must be a god that is hate, a god that is contempt, a god that is happy and a god that is sad.

Love is not an emotion in Christianity, love is way of being. It’s a way of life, and existence itself. It’s not something God feels, but something God is.

I’m really feeling sorry for God not knowing happiness and joy. I did ask if God was happy and if I listen to you the answer is no God is not happy. God does not feel He is the feeling.

We call humans without emotion sociopaths and psychopaths.

Sure, but God is not human, with fluctuating emotional states. God’s attribute are eternal and infinite, so implying God feels happy at one moment, sad the next moment, angry another moment, negates these essential elements of who God is.

I seriously cannot comprehend God as love itself. Love does not cause suffering as did God when he created all this per the bible.

Again this assumes love is a function of a being, and not being itself. A god of Love created our world, with its beauty, suffering, pain, and joy, and depth. And it’s not true that a God of love ought not have created a world like ours.

Human's cannot really know God can they? WE are too stupid. Too limited to our planet. It is an ant trying to understand a human.

Humans can know God, it’s just that our knowledge will always be imperfect, and incomplete, as men seeing through a glass darkly.

You did not respond to my comment about emotional intelligence. God cannot understand the plight of humans without experiencing emotion. This is why we have empathy for each other. You are saying God has no empathy. [b]I do not want to be judged by a character with no empathy or compassion.

Human beings perhaps can’t understand what others are going through, without experiencing some elements of those aspects themselves. It might be hard for a man to understand the pain of child birth, or parents who never lost a child, to understand the loss of our child. Our emotional understanding develops as the result of our experiences.

But God’s knowledge is not contingent, he doesn’t became aware of something when we perform an action, or actions themselves. He is all knowing, and not just knowing of mathematical truths, all the cold hard facts of reality, but knowledge of all things, including love, suffering, etc… But that knowledge is not dependent on our experiences to exist. It’s been known before we were even created, or formed, known eternally.

You also did not answer the question: How does sin affect God?

Sin doesn’t affect God, sin affects the sinner.

If I do something wrong towards someone that loves me, like my wife or mother, even if they don’t know about it, it impacts my relationship with them. I feel guilty and ashamed for what I did, it prevents me from having a close relationship with them, from looking at them in the face, our relationship becomes fractured, even if they’re none the wiser. Sin has separated me from them. Maybe I’m afraid they won’t forgive me, maybe I feel unworthy of their love because of my actions. This dark place that I found myself in, is someplace I put myself in, and threw away the key.

I can not draw near to God as the result of my sin, but this doesn’t mean that God has moved away from me, just that I can’t move towards him. I have to recognize his eternal love and forgiveness, the Grace of God, in order to be restored.

In the story of the prodigal son, the son has lived a sinful life, squandered his inheritance, and in the end desires only to be a servant in his father’s house. When the father sees him, he doesn’t condemn him for what he did, hold his sins against him, but celebrates his return, welcomes him as the son, he always was.

[Silver]

My answer to- Is God altruistic is no, that is not possible. Everything Yahweh does in the buy-bull is for his own pleasure such as worship by piss ants compared to His glory and magnificence.

My answer to- is God happy is no, I think it needs a psychiatrist. I am perplexed as to why God would even have emotions. Human emotions have a function. Love for reproduction and sanctity of life. Anger for strength. Guilt for self-reflection. I think you see where I'm going with this. Yea, I cannot reconcile how a disembodied brain would even exist even in the strangest of places in our universe. I am not trying to claim there is, I do not believe the woo woo. If somebody can convince me why the supreme being that existed before time and space has emotions, I might change my mind.

God is whatever man wants him to be since man creates god in his mind.

[tackattack]

"I think it's perfectly fine to say things like God is pleased when we do his will, "

If that is so, the opposite must also be true. IE that he gets angry when he is disobeyed. There are
a number of examples in the Torah about what happens when god gets angry. He  is capricious. Piss him off and he gets really vicious, cruel, and vengeful ,in fact quite  psychotic in his wrath.

I've asked this question before, but no one has answered. How can an infinite  god be offended or pleased by his finite creations?. Plus, he is omniscient, so knows how each of his creations will behave. The so called free will he bestows is an illusion.

Sorry, but really not interested in hearing the opinions of our resident apologists.

How can an infinite god be offended or pleased by his finite creations factoring in He is omniscient, so knows how each of his creations will behave?

I know when my kids are lying, in trouble, what they're likely to say to get out of chores, etc. That doesn't mean they have to do those things. I'm disappointed when they don't meet their potential. I'm pleased when they grow and learn to handle things better and more in line with what I see as their potential. Just blow up the proportions to a perspective parent being outside of time, all powerful and all knowing.  Does that answer your question?