How about this..

[Drich]

like in your specific case? per the first thread when you did not understand that the whole perpetual motion machine was a rouse designed to prove you guys do not look things up rather you argue what you think you know.. This rouse was in contrast to how I documented and cited several sources and could do so because everything I was explaining was based on current establish technology. Yet people such as yourself decided to argue with me anyway based on 'feelings'

So when I made my reveal that the earths heat would be considered a fuel source, and there fore revealing the fact this was not a perpetual motion machine at all, but just like machines that already exist that uses the methods I described to harness energy, it proved that All of you Do not put the time and effort in to speak knowledgeably and intelligently. Then you chimed in.. Seemingly you did not even understand on the most basic level what was going on.

Now with this new promise I pledge to take the time to help you with your failure to understand, rather than do what I did. (to try and make you look as foolish as possible) by highlighting your word use of fuel as a reward of your own ignorance of the topic. Yes you use the word fuel but you do not explain how a fuel in this context would diminish in any way my stated claim. then your very next post you abandoned the use of the word fuel all together and picked up the ever so popular second law of thermal dynamics like everyone else did. which again does not apply.. but when did my reveal you centered in on the word fuel and noted you actually typed the word negating the fact you made no effort in trying to explain why you used this word.. you only pretended that there could have been no other possible explanation for why you would use the word nuclear fuel (which again is not what is even being discussed) so you pretended you never even said nuclear.

Now if you are convinced I am wrong here then simply explain to me why the second law of thermodynamics does not apply to my perpetual motion machine as described.

Your answer if right will prove my intention to do as I claimed above. (so you can understand my intention) if your answer is wrong then it proves that you had no idea what was being discussed and everything you said in the first thread was 'untrue' at best and only further my initial point. That 1/2 the time you guys have no idea what you are arguing. you just take up ying yang position opposite to me and argue feelings.

Third option is you could remain silent and prove me wrong.

 Hi Drich.

Uhm... I think the problem/isue is that you're using the definition "Perpetual motion machine" incorrectly.

In relation to a geothermal plant, or wind farm, or atomic rector, or solar pannel array.

Non of the above are 'Perpetual motion machines'. They all convert one form of energy into another form of energy.... and usually into a third form of energy in most cases.

A 'Perpetual motion machine' is effectivly a 'Free lunch'. Once set up and plugged in energy 'Magically' comes out the end.

This is why, in most science fiction settings 'Gravity thrusters' are actually a bad idea. If you can make a gizmo that can simply 'Push' against reality when you supply electricity into it?

Then, depending on the efficency, you can simply have a couple opposit each other on long arms around an axis with a generator mounted at the axis. Supply some innitial power to get the thing spinning and eventually the rotatinal energy wil produce more power than the 'Gravitic pushers' mounted on the ends.

Needles to say.... you can weaponize said idea pretty quickly as well.

Sorry for the digression.

Basically the geo/solar/atomic/wind systems all lose energy in one form or another. With atomic energy... the atoms simply turn into something esle that's no lonegr atomically unstable.

With solar? we eventually run out of Sun. Plus the panels break down under UV bombardment etc.

With geothermal? The latent heat energy in the rocks 'fades' and new heat can't phase into the are fast enough to keep the temperature high enough to generate useful power.

With wind? Well... it's actually the worst (Least efficent) of the group. You ever wonder why we don't still use wind mills to grind our grain and stuff? You could, with enough windmills taking energy out of the surrounding air, potentially change weather patterns in the surrounding area. Clouds form based party on the energy in the air in which they coalesce

Basically, you're redefining the term 'Perpetual motion'. If you want to keep with your definition, that's fine. but at least allow every one else to understand and catch up with your terms.

 

Not at work.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-59309-page-21.html
that was the big reveal of post 207 in the original thread... thanks for confirming my own findings and respringing my trap validating all of the facts and technology that you YES YOU and your peers were originally arguing against.

in your efforts here, You're only furthering the point I made there and now that you've finally come to a conclusion I personally pointed out almost 4 days ago..

can you now be bothered to read this op in this new thread and now comment on this topic?

Because the only thing you have done here by rehashing your conclusions of the other thread is insult your peers by pretending to have figured out what they have all failed to do in the heat of the moment. Even if you did honestly figure it out, why post it here? Unless your intentions is to tell your fellow atheists how smart you see yourself to be...

---

like in your specific case? per the first thread when you did not understand that the whole perpetual motion machine was a rouse designed to prove you guys do not look things up rather you argue what you think you know.. This rouse was in contrast to how I documented and cited several sources and could do so because everything I was explaining was based on current establish technology. Yet people such as yourself decided to argue with me anyway based on 'feelings'

So when I made my reveal that the earths heat would be considered a fuel source, and there fore revealing the fact this was not a perpetual motion machine at all, but just like machines that already exist that uses the methods I described to harness energy, it proved that All of you Do not put the time and effort in to speak knowledgeably and intelligently. Then you chimed in.. Seemingly you did not even understand on the most basic level what was going on.

Now with this new promise I pledge to take the time to help you with your failure to understand, rather than do what I did. (to try and make you look as foolish as possible) by highlighting your word use of fuel as a reward of your own ignorance of the topic. Yes you use the word fuel but you do not explain how a fuel in this context would diminish in any way my stated claim. then your very next post you abandoned the use of the word fuel all together and picked up the ever so popular second law of thermal dynamics like everyone else did. which again does not apply.. but when did my reveal you centered in on the word fuel and noted you actually typed the word negating the fact you made no effort in trying to explain why you used this word.. you only pretended that there could have been no other possible explanation for why you would use the word nuclear fuel (which again is not what is even being discussed) so you pretended you never even said nuclear.

Now if you are convinced I am wrong here then simply explain to me why the second law of thermodynamics does not apply to my perpetual motion machine as described.

Your answer if right will prove my intention to do as I claimed above. (so you can understand my intention) if your answer is wrong then it proves that you had no idea what was being discussed and everything you said in the first thread was 'untrue' at best and only further my initial point. That 1/2 the time you guys have no idea what you are arguing. you just take up ying yang position opposite to me and argue feelings.

Third option is you could remain silent and prove me wrong.

Doubling down on "on the look out for cheap and quick shortcuts that might seems to you to enable you to dominate conversation with pretenses", and "deeply committed to inflating yourself with bombast, braggadocio, shallow bluffing with the help of wikipedia and youtube, appeal to worthless "authority" such as the bible that impress yokels but cuts no ice with the educated as a means of giving yourself a sense of worth", I see.


Tisk, Tisk.   An outstandingly bad start to affecting even the most transparently insincere claims of desire for truce.

I have not double down on anything. my pledge was to be transparent not accommodating or facilitating in my own destruction. It simply promised to let you in on the joke rather than being the unexpected butt of it. that way you fully understand what is being discussed and often time will forego the need I might have for putting your foolishness out there in the first place.

My hope is if we are on the same page and you are not looking over your shoulder then you don't have to feel like you have to always try and save face against the dumb guy who has yet again shown you up. (if and when that is the case.. like this last time.)

[I_am_not_mafia]

So to summarise your trap then Drich ...

You claim to have invented a perpetual motion machine.

No one believes you.

You come up with an overly complicated design for a geothermal plant.

People show how it doesn't last forever.

You redefine perpetual.

People point out how a perpetual motion machine violates the laws of Thermodynamics.

You then claim that it was a ruse and it's not really a perpetual motion machine despite continuing to refer to it as that.

You then challenge people to explain "why the second law of thermodynamics does not apply to my perpetual motion machine as described." when it's you describing it as a perpetual motion machine that by definition means that it doesn't apply.

[Peebothuhlu]

 Hi Drich.

Uhm... I think the problem/isue is that you're using the definition "Perpetual motion machine" incorrectly.

In relation to a geothermal plant, or wind farm, or atomic rector, or solar pannel array.

Non of the above are 'Perpetual motion machines'. They all convert one form of energy into another form of energy.... and usually into a third form of energy in most cases.

A 'Perpetual motion machine' is effectivly a 'Free lunch'. Once set up and plugged in energy 'Magically' comes out the end.

This is why, in most science fiction settings 'Gravity thrusters' are actually a bad idea. If you can make a gizmo that can simply 'Push' against reality when you supply electricity into it?

Then, depending on the efficency, you can simply have a couple opposit each other on long arms around an axis with a generator mounted at the axis. Supply some innitial power to get the thing spinning and eventually the rotatinal energy wil produce more power than the 'Gravitic pushers' mounted on the ends.

Needles to say.... you can weaponize said idea pretty quickly as well.

Sorry for the digression.

Basically the geo/solar/atomic/wind systems all lose energy in one form or another. With atomic energy... the atoms simply turn into something esle that's no lonegr atomically unstable.

With solar? we eventually run out of Sun. Plus the panels break down under UV bombardment etc.

With geothermal? The latent heat energy in the rocks 'fades' and new heat can't phase into the are fast enough to keep the temperature high enough to generate useful power.

With wind? Well... it's actually the worst (Least efficent) of the group. You ever wonder why we don't still use wind mills to grind our grain and stuff? You could, with enough windmills taking energy out of the surrounding air, potentially change weather patterns in the surrounding area. Clouds form based party on the energy in the air in which they coalesce

Basically, you're redefining the term 'Perpetual motion'. If you want to keep with your definition, that's fine. but at least allow every one else to understand and catch up with your terms.

 

Not at work.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-59309-page-21.html
that was the big reveal of post 207 in the original thread... thanks for confirming my own findings and respringing my trap validating all of the facts and technology that you YES YOU and your peers were originally arguing against.

in your efforts here, You're only furthering the point I made there and now that you've finally come to a conclusion I personally pointed out almost 4 days ago..

can you now be bothered to read this op in this new thread and now comment on this topic?

Because the only thing you have done here by rehashing your conclusions of the other thread is insult your peers by pretending to have figured out what they have all failed to do in the heat of the moment. Even if you did honestly figure it out, why post it here? Unless your intentions is to tell your fellow atheists how smart you see yourself to be...

---

 Uhm... so that's a "Yes" to you using the word/term 'Perpetual motion machine' in the wrong sense then, is it?



EDIT: Well... not in the 'Wrong' sense... but in a way that, so far, only you have used it?

Not at work.

[Drich]

Am I talking about Deesee?   Really, Drich?



You are that clueless?

again.. look at the mistake you made. look at how your quote tags speak to what deese has to say.

now if our roles where reversed I would spend the next 4 or 5 days using this one error to try and refute any credibility you have and or would call you names as if this one error mae defined a greater mental deficiency... 

now did I do that? did I assume your whole post was the result of mental retardation? (try not to grab at all the low hanging fruit I punctuate my writing with, as it is an indicator of cognitive capacity/meaning I can use your comments to set you up for a bigger laugh.)

no I pointed out your error, and then took the time to answered you any way. 

Now look at what you did in response.. you took, not the topical discussion (not one word of it) but zeroed in on the opportunity to attack me personally again! and then, only focused me pointing out your error! 

To Then Top It Off! played it off as if I made no attempt to respond to you topically.. Rather your whole shtick is based on the idea that I am so stupid as to point out your error I was not able to respond any other way...

yet I did.. in fact I left a couple of paragraphs that topically pertained to everything you had to say. yet none of that was addressed.. no you went again to ad hoc low brow nonsense and play it like I am the deficient one in this conversation.

---

a semi truce as I know not anyone person can speak for everyone

Back off the emotionally driven hate/kill the messenger tactics and address content.  and I promise to stop taking advantages of opportunities to hypocrisy, general failures in basic understanding in logic and reason and will stop calling people names (sort of fruit cup)

And i would bet the remain christians would also like to be given a little break from the onslaught as well.

Will you ever reply to me without 6 quotes? 

Here is my truce; Admit you have failed miserably to disprove the glory, might and eternal truths of FSM and I'll stop pointing out you have failed to do so.

Do I need to report you as a troll or for misquoting me? calling me out on a subject I never took part in???

Because again I have never taken the position against the FSM You are intentionally misrepresenting me and you are misrepresenting my work. and I am serious here even if you are at play pretend with the topic. Again all I have ever done is take your words or what you claim to be FSM scripture and compare them to FSM canon EG FSM bible and show where the discrepancies in your mockery lay. I never set out to disprove anything. My whole effort centers around truth and allowing people to figure it out for themselves. based on questions they may have or like you my effort changes to correcting canonical error when misunderstood or misspoken. You are painting me as a stereotypical evangelist. I am not and have spent the better part of 12 year reinventing everything so I can play the role I am work at currently.

Despite what games or how you do not take this seriously make no excuse for you to misrepresent me or my work.

If you are going to play your game then you like me need to play by the web site rules.. if you are not smart enough to work fsm canon into one of your jokes then maybe you should drop your joke and go for something else. what you should never to is slander another person or their work just so you can make a joke.

This is your last warning from me on the subject.

Now if you wish to continue your FSM game then take it to the appropriate part of the web site (start with other religions as FSM s not apart of christianity.) or make the canon fit the topic otherwise you are just trolling which last I checked was against the rules.. which apply to atheist too.

[Crossless2.0]

FFS, I take the better part of a half-year off and return to find that some things haven't changed at all.

Carry on . . .

[Drich]

like in your specific case? per the first thread when you did not understand that the whole perpetual motion machine was a rouse designed to prove you guys do not look things up rather you argue what you think you know.. This rouse was in contrast to how I documented and cited several sources and could do so because everything I was explaining was based on current establish technology. Yet people such as yourself decided to argue with me anyway based on 'feelings'

So when I made my reveal that the earths heat would be considered a fuel source, and there fore revealing the fact this was not a perpetual motion machine at all, but just like machines that already exist that uses the methods I described to harness energy, it proved that All of you Do not put the time and effort in to speak knowledgeably and intelligently. Then you chimed in.. Seemingly you did not even understand on the most basic level what was going on.

Now with this new promise I pledge to take the time to help you with your failure to understand, rather than do what I did. (to try and make you look as foolish as possible) by highlighting your word use of fuel as a reward of your own ignorance of the topic. Yes you use the word fuel but you do not explain how a fuel in this context would diminish in any way my stated claim. then your very next post you abandoned the use of the word fuel all together and picked up the ever so popular second law of thermal dynamics like everyone else did. which again does not apply.. but when did my reveal you centered in on the word fuel and noted you actually typed the word negating the fact you made no effort in trying to explain why you used this word.. you only pretended that there could have been no other possible explanation for why you would use the word nuclear fuel (which again is not what is even being discussed) so you pretended you never even said nuclear.

Now if you are convinced I am wrong here then simply explain to me why the second law of thermodynamics does not apply to my perpetual motion machine as described.

Your answer if right will prove my intention to do as I claimed above. (so you can understand my intention) if your answer is wrong then it proves that you had no idea what was being discussed and everything you said in the first thread was 'untrue' at best and only further my initial point. That 1/2 the time you guys have no idea what you are arguing. you just take up ying yang position opposite to me and argue feelings.

Third option is you could remain silent and prove me wrong.

Quote you: "Now with this new promise I pledge to take the time to help you with your failure to understand,"

Oh no, we do understand, that is why we are atheists. Try understanding why you reject claims of Allah and Vishnu and Buddha and Thor.

You won't do that because your own fear of being wrong wont let you consider you got it wrong. 

We are not the ones with the problem.

I was an atheist.. I tested those religions per their prescribed paths or at least studied them as some require blood. I found them to be faith only based or the deity was supported by the community. This study continues to this day.. So do you understand what that means? I literally did what you claim I did not do and that is consider other religions. I was born into buddhism, then went to a korean only speaking 'baptist church.' I did not speak korean so they made me and my sister wait outside. then went into atheism for a long long time. Then I heard that christians had direct access to God, so I demanded a meeting to every christian that went to my high school via my fists and boots. I wanted to spit in his eye.. maybe take a poke at him..

Then I was placed before God.

That is why I believe.

that is why I do not believe other religions because most of them are faith only based or maindate that believers take the role of cosmic good.

Now in light of every other religion requiring holy men as filters between you and God, if you where sat before God would you believe? Just you and Him?

That's the thing... I'm not special I am like everyone else. what I was offered and took God up on is also offered to all of you with nothing from me or the others in the christian community. it is a between you and God experience.

Does not cost anything you do not have in your power to abundantly give. you do not have to go anywhere. you do not have to really change anything you are doing for right now.. change is not expected till after you understand. which will become a want to change.

Then god opens the flood gates of wisdom and blessings the more you walk the path. which again becomes something you want for yourself.

[Nay_Sayer]

Am I talking about Deesee?   Really, Drich?



You are that clueless?

again.. look at the mistake you made. look at how your quote tags speak to what deese has to say.

now if our roles where reversed I would spend the next 4 or 5 days using this one error to try and refute any credibility you have and or would call you names as if this one error mae defined a greater mental deficiency... 

now did I do that? did I assume your whole post was the result of mental retardation? (try not to grab at all the low hanging fruit I punctuate my writing with, as it is an indicator of cognitive capacity/meaning I can use your comments to set you up for a bigger laugh.)

no I pointed out your error, and then took the time to answered you any way. 

Now look at what you did in response.. you took, not the topical discussion (not one word of it) but zeroed in on the opportunity to attack me personally again! and then, only focused me pointing out your error! 

To Then Top It Off! played it off as if I made no attempt to respond to you topically.. Rather your whole shtick is based on the idea that I am so stupid as to point out your error I was not able to respond any other way...

yet I did.. in fact I left a couple of paragraphs that topically pertained to everything you had to say. yet none of that was addressed.. no you went again to ad hoc low brow nonsense and play it like I am the deficient one in this conversation.

---

Will you ever reply to me without 6 quotes? 

Here is my truce; Admit you have failed miserably to disprove the glory, might and eternal truths of FSM and I'll stop pointing out you have failed to do so.

Do I need to report you as a troll or for misquoting me? calling me out on a subject I never took part in???

Because again I have never taken the position against the FSM You are intentionally misrepresenting me and you are misrepresenting my work. and I am serious here even if you are at play pretend with the topic. Again all I have ever done is take your words or what you claim to be FSM scripture and compare them to FSM canon EG FSM bible and show where the discrepancies in your mockery lay. I never set out to disprove anything. My whole effort centers around truth and allowing people to figure it out for themselves. based on questions they may have or like you my effort changes to correcting canonical error when misunderstood or misspoken. You are painting me as a stereotypical evangelist. I am not and have spent the better part of 12 year reinventing everything so I can play the role I am work at currently.

Despite what games or how you do not take this seriously make no excuse for you to misrepresent me or my work.

If you are going to play your game then you like me need to play by the web site rules.. if you are not smart enough to work fsm canon into one of your jokes then maybe you should drop your joke and go for something else. what you should never to is slander another person or their work just so you can make a joke.

This is your last warning from me on the subject.

Now if you wish to continue your FSM game then take it to the appropriate part of the web site (start with other religions as FSM s not apart of christianity.) or make the canon fit the topic otherwise you are just trolling which last I checked was against the rules.. which apply to atheist too.

Only two quotes! Please do try. False reporting would get you ever closer to being banned.

I have a lot to correct your little mind on.

1: My faith isn't a mockery, I will put aside my offensive that you continue to claim so and then call foul when I tell you your your diety is a fictionary weak sauce shrimp dick.

2: I have broken no rules on this site. I am not surprised, however, that again you failed reading comprehension. A common theme for someone whose false idolatry has withered their grey matter into a malleable mush.  This site encourages people of all religions including the wrong ones (IE: Yours) to share their beliefs, I do so and work to curb my efforts to covert thou I have been able to bring a number of people into the warm tendrils of FSM.

3: Your warnings meaning nothing to me little man, However, I am warning you. Continue your ways and I'll have no recourse but to cease my prayers for you and instead challenge you to a joust and madam, I have riding experience.

4: Bolded; That is a long time perfecting roadside cleanup. Not that the profession isn't a worthy one.

So the onus is again on you, Show me where on the site it says I cannot share my faith, I'll wait.

Continued blessings: RAmen

[Brian37]

 Hi Drich.

Uhm... I think the problem/isue is that you're using the definition "Perpetual motion machine" incorrectly.

In relation to a geothermal plant, or wind farm, or atomic rector, or solar pannel array.

Non of the above are 'Perpetual motion machines'. They all convert one form of energy into another form of energy.... and usually into a third form of energy in most cases.

A 'Perpetual motion machine' is effectivly a 'Free lunch'. Once set up and plugged in energy 'Magically' comes out the end.

This is why, in most science fiction settings 'Gravity thrusters' are actually a bad idea. If you can make a gizmo that can simply 'Push' against reality when you supply electricity into it?

Then, depending on the efficency, you can simply have a couple opposit each other on long arms around an axis with a generator mounted at the axis. Supply some innitial power to get the thing spinning and eventually the rotatinal energy wil produce more power than the 'Gravitic pushers' mounted on the ends.

Needles to say.... you can weaponize said idea pretty quickly as well.

Sorry for the digression.

Basically the geo/solar/atomic/wind systems all lose energy in one form or another. With atomic energy... the atoms simply turn into something esle that's no lonegr atomically unstable.

With solar? we eventually run out of Sun. Plus the panels break down under UV bombardment etc.

With geothermal? The latent heat energy in the rocks 'fades' and new heat can't phase into the are fast enough to keep the temperature high enough to generate useful power.

With wind? Well... it's actually the worst (Least efficent) of the group. You ever wonder why we don't still use wind mills to grind our grain and stuff? You could, with enough windmills taking energy out of the surrounding air, potentially change weather patterns in the surrounding area. Clouds form based party on the energy in the air in which they coalesce

Basically, you're redefining the term 'Perpetual motion'. If you want to keep with your definition, that's fine. but at least allow every one else to understand and catch up with your terms.

 

Not at work.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-59309-page-21.html
that was the big reveal of post 207 in the original thread... thanks for confirming my own findings and respringing my trap validating all of the facts and technology that you YES YOU and your peers were originally arguing against.

in your efforts here, You're only furthering the point I made there and now that you've finally come to a conclusion I personally pointed out almost 4 days ago..

can you now be bothered to read this op in this new thread and now comment on this topic?

Because the only thing you have done here by rehashing your conclusions of the other thread is insult your peers by pretending to have figured out what they have all failed to do in the heat of the moment. Even if you did honestly figure it out, why post it here? Unless your intentions is to tell your fellow atheists how smart you see yourself to be...

---

Doubling down on "on the look out for cheap and quick shortcuts that might seems to you to enable you to dominate conversation with pretenses", and "deeply committed to inflating yourself with bombast, braggadocio, shallow bluffing with the help of wikipedia and youtube, appeal to worthless "authority" such as the bible that impress yokels but cuts no ice with the educated as a means of giving yourself a sense of worth", I see.


Tisk, Tisk.   An outstandingly bad start to affecting even the most transparently insincere claims of desire for truce.

I have not double down on anything. my pledge was to be transparent not accommodating or facilitating in my own destruction. It simply promised to let you in on the joke rather than being the unexpected butt of it. that way you fully understand what is being discussed and often time will forego the need I might have for putting your foolishness out there in the first place.

My hope is if we are on the same page and you are not looking over your shoulder then you don't have to feel like you have to always try and save face against the dumb guy who has yet again shown you up. (if and when that is the case.. like this last time.)

Quote you: " my pledge was to be transparent".

You didn't need to pledge that, we already saw through you.

[Drich]

like in your specific case? per the first thread when you did not understand that

I am an engineer since the mid 90s and understood thermodynamic laws since the mid 80s. You didn't even know it's not 'thermal dynamics' since a few posts ago.

So who do you think you are fooling with your cheap bluffs?
But by all means, please continue to demonstrate that you have earned the title of village idiot.

So please tell me how what I said violates the 2nd law..

[I_am_not_mafia]

I was an atheist..

[snip]

... then went into atheism for a long long time. Then I heard that christians had direct access to God, so I demanded a meeting to every christian that went to my high school via my fists and boots. I wanted to spit in his eye.. maybe take a poke at him..

How could you have wanted to spit in God's eye and take a poke at something that if you didn't believe he existed?

This has been pointed out to you repeatedly. You weren't an atheist.You just weren't following any particular religion.

Either you did not believe a god existed, or you did but were angry at it. You can't have both.

---

So please tell me how what I said violates the 2nd law..

What you have said has changed so many times, you need to be specific about what you described. First you say you invented a perpetual motion machine, then you try to redefine what a perpetual motion machine is, and then you claim it was a ruse yet still refer to it as a perpetual motion machine.

A perpetual motion machine violates the second law of thermodynamics as has been stated already in this thread.

What you described was not a perpetual motion machine and therefore does not violate the second law of thermodynamics.

If you are claiming that your idea is a perpetual motion machine then you are then one claiming that it violates the second law of thermodynamics.

At the moment you're just trying to make a huge strawman argument and fooling nobody.