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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
July 31, 2019 at 7:07 am
(July 31, 2019 at 6:58 am)Alan V Wrote: (July 30, 2019 at 12:54 pm)DLJ Wrote: Perhaps it's easier (but not as accurate) to call it: The phenotypic machine's monitoring system's monitoring system's monitoring system.
You know, I'm really going to have to go back, read over your many different categories, and write them all down to try to see if I can plug them into anything which actually makes sense to me. I'm afraid I'm trying to discuss all of this top-down while you're addressing it bottom-up.
Fair enough.
When looking at emergent stuff like 'consciousness' and 'mind' and 'knowledge', bottom-up (i.e. evolution and the laws of physics e.g. entropy) is my preferred approach. As in... what did they emerge from?
Which is kinda ironic given that the models I use (and teach) are all about intelligent design i.e. top-down.
Let me know if you have any questions.
The PURPOSE of life is to replicate our DNA ................. (from Darwin)
The MEANING of life is the experience of living ... (from Frank Herbert)
The VALUE of life is the legacy we leave behind ..... (from observation)
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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
July 31, 2019 at 9:06 am
(July 30, 2019 at 12:54 pm)DLJ Wrote: Perhaps it's easier (but not as accurate) to call it: The phenotypic machine's monitoring system's monitoring system's monitoring system.
This is almost no joke, considering the brain's ability to layer one habit on top of another. It's no wonder that beyond a certain age so many people become so set in their ways.
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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
July 31, 2019 at 9:33 am
(This post was last modified: July 31, 2019 at 9:34 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Now you’re just being mean to Batman and Alfred, lol. If the value of the myth is in the message relayed, it isn’t made better or worse by being packaged in some narrative about shiva- except insomuch as which character more effectively delivers the message. Shiva doesn’t cut it for Americans. Batman does.
Two mailmen, one message, but one actually delivers.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
August 3, 2019 at 1:22 pm
I think that myths and mythical stories, in the past, provided people with bits of truth and wisdom through otherwise fictional stories. I think that, in today's world, they're unnecessary. We can get truth from science and the scientific method, as well as rational thinking and empiricism. But we then have to ask, how do we get our 'widsom?' Certainly, wisdom still has value in 2019 and beyond.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
August 3, 2019 at 1:30 pm
(August 3, 2019 at 1:22 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: I think that myths and mythical stories, in the past, provided people with bits of truth and wisdom through otherwise fictional stories. I think that, in today's world, they're unnecessary. We can get truth from science and the scientific method, as well as rational thinking and empiricism. But we then have to ask, how do we get our 'widsom?' Certainly, wisdom still has value in 2019 and beyond.
Wisdom? Perhaps. Truth? Why is it a myth if it tells truth?
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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
August 3, 2019 at 1:33 pm
(August 3, 2019 at 1:30 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: (August 3, 2019 at 1:22 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: I think that myths and mythical stories, in the past, provided people with bits of truth and wisdom through otherwise fictional stories. I think that, in today's world, they're unnecessary. We can get truth from science and the scientific method, as well as rational thinking and empiricism. But we then have to ask, how do we get our 'widsom?' Certainly, wisdom still has value in 2019 and beyond.
Wisdom? Perhaps. Truth? Why is it a myth if it tells truth?
A myth doesn't have to be completely fictional, does it? Maybe there was once a man named Jesus. Certainly, unless we're completely missing something about how gravity works, he did not walk on water. Nor was he born of a virgin. However, he may have actually have existed.
The question is, why continue to tell myths or mythological stories in 2019? I think the potential to do harm far outweighs the potential to convey some small piece of truth and/or wisdom.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
August 3, 2019 at 1:39 pm
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2019 at 1:48 pm by Anomalocaris.)
There may once have been a Jesus. But Christianity certainly doesn't Clarify that issue, does it?
It may not be completely fictional. But telling of facts mixed with fabrication only make sense if the fabrication is essential to serving the need of the myth. When the myth injects and clings to the fabrication in order to serve the need, it certainly would not shoot itself in the foot by providing means for distinguishing its own fabrication from any grains of truth it contains.
So in that sense, a myth with grains of truth seldomly provides a better means of learning what the truth is than pure fabrication. You have to already know what the truth is to separate the truth in a myth from the fabrication.
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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
August 3, 2019 at 1:42 pm
I would probably agree with that. What's your point?
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
August 3, 2019 at 1:46 pm
(August 3, 2019 at 1:42 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: I would probably agree with that. What's your point?
Myth does not provide people with usable truth even if it interweaves usable truth into its own fabric.
Truth in myth is not a product that myth provides to its users. It is rather part of the machansim by which myth create its product of falsehoods.
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RE: Are Myths Valuable?
August 3, 2019 at 1:53 pm
(This post was last modified: August 3, 2019 at 1:57 pm by EgoDeath.)
(August 3, 2019 at 1:46 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: (August 3, 2019 at 1:42 pm)EgoDeath Wrote: I would probably agree with that. What's your point?
Myth does not provide people with usable truth even if it interweaves usable truth into its own fabric.
Truth in myth is not a product that myth provides to its users. It is rather part of the machansim by which myth create its product of falsehoods.
I never said myth provided usable truth, because "usable truth" is completely subjective. Certainly there are usable and unusable, or useless, truths. What might have been a completely usable truth to someone a thousand years ago might be completely useless to us now, even if we realize that bits and pieces of the story are objectively true. Even if they may not have been able to distinguish the fictional from factual, but we now objectively can. That didn't matter to them a thousand years ago.
People who were hearing myths a thousand years ago were probably not sitting their analyzing that this story was providing them with truth and wisdom through an otherwise fictional story. They were simply taking the story for what it was and getting what they could out of it. Probably not even consciously.
So just because they weren't consciously realizing they were being told a myth doesn't mean they weren't being told a myth. Just because they didn't consciously realize there were bits of truth and wisdom doesn't mean there wasn't bits of both.
It's not like they were sitting there thinking "I am being told a myth. I will now implement whatever bits of truth and wisdom I can into my daily life. I will now distinguish usable truths from fiction. Application of information will now commence.
LOL. That's not how people think, even now.
So, you're not really saying anything I disagree with. Not sure what your point is, still.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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