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Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
#1
Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
The more I play Skyrim, the more I think about the morally grey choices you can make. One is which side you choose during the Civil War. I know there have been debates in other places, but they're usually dated years ago, when the games first came out. I, on the other hand, didn't start playing until it came out on the switch.

I've given this topic more thought than it probably deserves. Given that it's not very fleshed out for being one of Skyrim's major events, I've probably given it more thought than even the developers expected. I'd like to get my thoughts out, but I'm not sure how many Skyrim fans we got that actually want to get into this topic. So, does anyone want to hear my thoughts?
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

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#2
RE: Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
Sure. I mean, I didn't give it much thought as I played through it. It may give me the urge to play again. Wish it was compatible with the One.
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#3
RE: Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
(July 31, 2019 at 3:50 pm)Shell B Wrote: Sure. I mean, I didn't give it much thought as I played through it. It may give me the urge to play again. Wish it was compatible with the One.

Skyrim Special Edition works on the Xbox One.



FWIW, I find both to be morally ambiguous and in several playthroughs, I've declined to get involved with either, beyond ambushing their patrols. Big Grin
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#4
RE: Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
(July 31, 2019 at 3:54 pm)Jackalope Wrote:
(July 31, 2019 at 3:50 pm)Shell B Wrote: Sure. I mean, I didn't give it much thought as I played through it. It may give me the urge to play again. Wish it was compatible with the One.

Skyrim Special Edition works on the Xbox One.



FWIW, I find both to be morally ambiguous and in several playthroughs, I've declined to get involved with either, beyond ambushing their patrols.  Big Grin

Goes to show how much time I've found to play video games. I'll have to grab that.
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#5
RE: Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
My initial knee jerk reaction was to side with Stormcloaks, given what happens in Helgen, but after doing some stuff in Whiterun, because of the dragon stuff, and going to Windhelm, I run into a snag. First there's the dude at the gate that's threatening to break into a woman's house at night, and torture her because she might be a spy. Or worse. Go into the Palace where Ulfric and Galmar are talking, and Galmar suggests running a sword though Baalgruf's gullet. The guy that made me Thane, and gave me his niece as a Housecarl. At that point I'm thinking is agreeing with Balgruuf, and "Siding with Whiterun". Granted he won't die if you side with Ulfric, but if it's your first time playing, and you're going in blind, you don't know he won't die.

So I look into it more. The main reason the Stormcloaks fight is freedom of religion. That's all fine and good, but it falls a little flat when you find out the Empire didn't want to do it, and didn't enforce it before the Markarth incident. It was more like "There's an official ban on Talos, but as long as you aren't pulling a Heimskr, and waving around your Talos Amulets, we're cool". It was a temporary measure, until the Empire was ready to shred the Concordat, and invade the Summerset Isles. The fact that Ulfric attacked the forsword leads me to believe he doesn't really believe in FoR on principle. Only his desire to worship the god he wants. Granted, the Forsword worship Daedric Princes, but so do the Dark Elves, and that's a playable race. Although the Nords do have a bad history with the dark elves too.....

Looking at the Jarls, in most cases I like the Imperial supporting one over the stormcloak one anyway. And a few Stormcloak supporting Jarls don't even like Ulfric. He killed Torygg, who considered him a friend, and planned to fight Balgruuf, who is no fan of the Empire, but apparently that doesn't matter. The guy is violent to people who could be his greatest allies, and was captured within months of General Tullius coming on scene. Not to mention he's pretty uch responsible for the Dragon Crisis happening. No True Nord would be ignorant of the prophesy of Alduin's return.

The Empire has problems, and it's really sad to see how far they fell once the Septims were gone, but I still imagine siding with them over the Stormcloaks. I imagine my character eventually becoming High King, possibly marrying Elisif, and enacting some changes within the Empire in exchange for my help against the Thalmor. That's work best if I help the Empire, rather than kill one of its best generals.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

Reply
#6
RE: Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
(July 31, 2019 at 3:49 pm)Chad32 Wrote: The more I play Skyrim, the more I think about the morally grey choices you can make. One is which side you choose during the Civil War. I know there have been debates in other places, but they're usually dated years ago, when the games first came out. I, on the other hand, didn't start playing until it came out on the switch.

I've given this topic more thought than it probably deserves. Given that it's not very fleshed out for being one of Skyrim's major events, I've probably given it more thought than even the developers expected. I'd like to get my thoughts out, but I'm not sure how many Skyrim fans we got that actually want to get into this topic. So, does anyone want to hear my thoughts?

Empire. While both sides are very grimy indeed, as far as my personal opinion goes, from playing through most of the game (I stopped about half way through ending the civil war a year ago, planning on going back and finishing), I can't get past the fact that the Stormcloaks are simply a bunch of nazi wannabes with a powermad leader who used his gifts for his personal aggrandisement.

Yes, there is a lot wrong with the empire, but its basic structure and it's ideologies show that it can be better, and with a right leadership it can be brought to a better state. The Stormcloaks will never be but what they are now.

Plus you've got the Aldmeri Dominion breathing down the necks of the whole of Tamriel. These guys are the actual nazis of the whole Elder Scrolls canon, and the only crowd that could stand up to them realistically are the Empire.
You see, one thing is: I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knoing than to have answers which might be wrong.
Richard Feynman

Well the sorrow the suffering the glory the pain
The killing the dying was all done in vain
For young Willy Mc Bride it all happened again
And again,and again,and again,and again

Eric Bogle Green Fields of France
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#7
RE: Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
I fairly recently, about three months ago, started a new game of Skyrim (I’m about 17th level which shows how often I get a chance to play).

In the initial stageof the game I always make sure I kill the Imperial captain who decides to execute you even though you’re not on the “list”.

Then I usually stay neutral in the war, ambushing both sides as Jackalope said.

I have joined the Imperial and Stormcloak sides in the past but find I prefer the Imperial side.
Sanity adjacent.


Angel





IMGUR 
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#8
RE: Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
I like that it's possible to kill the woman who decided not only to put you on the block, but make you go as early as possible. Karma. Honestly I blame her for that, more than the Empire in general.

And yeah, a bunch of battle hungry nationalists aren't going to be good for overall unity on the continent. Granted the Empire did get its start through conquest, but I think a new alliance of independent states can be born out of the ashes. Independent states that actually want to work together, instead of shouting "My province first!". Hell, that's what caused part of the problem before. The Emperor and Council deciding to prioritize Cyrodiil over Morrowind, or Hammerfell.

Shouting. No pun intended. Tongue
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

Reply
#9
RE: Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
In my prebious game I killed Aldmeri patrols as often as I could (which led to some high bounties).

They would occasionally send a squad to kill me. Then I would attack their embassy in retaliation and kill as many of them as I could.
Sanity adjacent.


Angel





IMGUR 
Reply
#10
RE: Skyrim: Empire vs Stormcloak discussion.
I'm real tempted to kill the patrols, but I think you get a bounty for murder unless you kill the prisoner too, and any other witnesses. Best I can do is just any mission that puts me at odds with them, until they attack me on sight anyway.

Also the idea that they're up in arms about not being able to worship Talos publicly, even while they're allowed to do it privately, reminds me of when Christians get up in arms because they can't have mandatory prayer in schools, and similar things. If Talos can't hear you pray quietly in your home, then he's not much of a god, is he?
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

Reply



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