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On Occultism
#1
On Occultism
What do you guys think of occultists or people who practice magic, or rather, magick? Smile

To me, these people are particularly funny, especially the ones who do magic/magick/black magick. With magic, you think one could expect immediate results, no? So after a spell or ritual, do they all just stand around awkwardly, trying to ignore the fact that they all secretly know that their little act did a whole lot of nothing? Or do you think they find ways to convince themselves that something did happen?

Furthermore, what is the conversation like after a "magic ritual?" Do they talk about the weather or politics right after? Or do they keep the act up until they all go home?
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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#2
RE: On Occultism
I toyed with becoming a Satanist in high school. It didn't work out. The magick made it all seem too far-fetched, and I couldn't afford the $200 fee to join the CoS even if they didn't have a strict policy of not allowing under-18s to become members.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#3
RE: On Occultism
Just another group of self deluding science deniers.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#4
RE: On Occultism
(September 6, 2019 at 1:04 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: I toyed with becoming a Satanist in high school. It didn't work out. The magick made it all seem too far-fetched, and I couldn't afford the $200 fee to join the CoS even if they didn't have a strict policy of not allowing under-18s to become members.

Satanism doesn't actually promote the idea of "magic" as you might think of it. In Satanism they divide magick into two categories: Greater Magick is defined as ritual, which is used for a sort of self-therapy; they use it to expel unwanted emotions or express certain desires. If you watch, Satanis: The Devil's Mass, it seems to be more about the theatrics of it than actually believing they're affecting some change in the world or in other individuals. Lesser Magick is the manipulation of other individuals through earthly means; they look at this in a sort of Machiavellian sense, i.e. if you can manipulate someone to get what you want out of them, you should, so long as you're not harming them or forcing them to do something "against their will."

You will find some fringe members of the CoS saying they do real magic and this and that but that is not what the Church's official stance is, so I take it with a grain of salt. Regardless, I think if you agree with the philosophies found within The Satanic Bible and The Satanic Scriptures, you're a Satanist; if you choose to adopt the moniker of course. Paying the fee for the metal membership card seems like a bit of an after-thought. Just my two cents though.

I'm more interested in people who actually believe in magic and spells and the like; people who read ancient grimiores thinking they're going to learn how to actually summon demons and shit.

I'm interested to know, do these people really believe in this nonsense or do they just play pretend because it feels good to act all mysterious and mystical? I'm honestly curious.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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#5
RE: On Occultism
Anton Levey was a circus huckster.

The only reason his nonsense caught on was because LSD was readilly available in San Francisco at the time.he started his "church".

You won't find any MENSA members in the congregation......
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#6
RE: On Occultism
Most of them appear to be harmless idiots, a certain percentage are confidence tricksters.  But yes, I think most of them believe in their rubbish and have the ability to convince themselves that their spells and rituals do work, coupled with the ability to rationalize away the failures.

A good illustration of this kind of thinking can be found in a passage from Twain's 'The Adventures of Tom Sawyer'.  Tom has buried a marble and recited an incantation over it, firm in the belief that if he did this and left the marble alone for a fortnight, it would draw to it all the marbles he had ever lost.  When he goes back to dig it up, he finds a single marble, the very one he had buried. 'The foundations of his faith were shaken.  He had heard of this working many times before, but had never heard it to fail.'  Tom comes to the conclusion that a witch has interfered and broken the spell. He confirms this when a doodle-bug refuses to speak to him - the bug is afraid of the witch.


Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#7
RE: On Occultism
Physicians work with occult all the time.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#8
RE: On Occultism
(September 6, 2019 at 1:12 am)EgoDeath Wrote:
(September 6, 2019 at 1:04 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: I toyed with becoming a Satanist in high school. It didn't work out. The magick made it all seem too far-fetched, and I couldn't afford the $200 fee to join the CoS even if they didn't have a strict policy of not allowing under-18s to become members.

Satanism doesn't actually promote the idea of "magic" as you might think of it. In Satanism they divide magick into two categories: Greater Magick is defined as ritual, which is used for a sort of self-therapy; they use it to expel unwanted emotions or express certain desires. If you watch, Satanis: The Devil's Mass, it seems to be more about the theatrics of it than actually believing they're affecting some change in the world or in other individuals. Lesser Magick is the manipulation of other individuals through earthly means; they look at this in a sort of Machiavellian sense, i.e. if you can manipulate someone to get what you want out of them, you should, so long as you're not harming them or forcing them to do something "against their will."

You will find some fringe members of the CoS saying they do real magic and this and that but that is not what the Church's official stance is, so I take it with a grain of salt. Regardless, I think if you agree with the philosophies found within The Satanic Bible and The Satanic Scriptures, you're a Satanist; if you choose to adopt the moniker of course. Paying the fee for the metal membership card seems like a bit of an after-thought. Just my two cents though.

To be fair, I did come to that conclusion after reading the Books of Belial and Leviathan, the third and fourth books of The Satanic Bible. Then again, I suspect my reading of those books may have been coloured by sour grapes because I knew they wouldn't accept a 16-year-old as a member. That and as a cheap sumbitch who did not actually have a job at that point, I couldn't afford the $200 membership fee (which has since risen to $225.)
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#9
RE: On Occultism
(September 6, 2019 at 7:51 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Anton Levey was a circus huckster.

Meaning... what exactly? He actually created a comprehensive, codified philosophy that a lot of people were into at the time. A lot of people still are. It's quite Libertarian in nature. Doesn't go over well with the regressive liberals of today, though.

(September 6, 2019 at 7:51 am)onlinebiker Wrote: The only reason his nonsense caught on was because LSD was readilly available in San Francisco at the time.he started his "church".

You won't find any MENSA members in the congregation......

I could just as easily dismiss any organization of any time period based on some outside factors that, in reality, have nothing to do with the organization itself.

LaVey actually spoke out against the use of things like LSD. If your idea is that these were a bunch of hippies, sitting around dropping acid and yelling, "Hail Satan," you've got it all wrong.

No surprise there though, OLB.

(September 6, 2019 at 8:11 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Most of them appear to be harmless idiots, a certain percentage are confidence tricksters.  But yes, I think most of them believe in their rubbish and have the ability to convince themselves that their spells and rituals do work, coupled with the ability to rationalize away the failures.

A good illustration of this kind of thinking can be found in a passage from Twain's 'The Adventures of Tom Sawyer'.  Tom has buried a marble and recited an incantation over it, firm in the belief that if he did this and left the marble alone for a fortnight, it would draw to it all the marbles he had ever lost.  When he goes back to dig it up, he finds a single marble, the very one he had buried. 'The foundations of his faith were shaken.  He had heard of this working many times before, but had never heard it to fail.'  Tom comes to the conclusion that a witch has interfered and broken the spell. He confirms this when a doodle-bug refuses to speak to him - the bug is afraid of the witch.


Boru

An interesting illustration of shaping reality around your beliefs instead of your beliefs around reality. Notice I didn't use the term, "your reality?"

I wonder if it's the same for occultists. The actually do believe in their nonsense but find ways to explain away the failures in their magical dealings.

Or maybe they do spells that you aren't supposed to see immediate results for. That way they keep plausible deniability... with themselves.

(September 6, 2019 at 11:14 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: To be fair, I did come to that conclusion after reading the Books of Belial and Leviathan, the third and fourth books of The Satanic Bible. Then again, I suspect my reading of those books may have been coloured by sour grapes because I knew they wouldn't accept a 16-year-old as a member. That and as a cheap sumbitch who did not actually have a job at that point, I couldn't afford the $200 membership fee (which has since risen to $225.)

Yes; they're quite adamant about not accepting minors into their organization, lest their be some trickery or scamming going on. They'd rather scam adults out of their $225. LOL!

To be honest, I like a lot of what LaVey and Gilmore had and have to say, respectively. But I don't ever see myself giving $225 to an organization just for the hell of it. After all, as a group, what does the CoS actually do? They're actually quite vocal about the fact that they don't do anything as an organization as they consider themselves a group for non-joiners, so to speak. I suppose if you really believed in the philosophy and simply wanted the card for novelty's sake, I could understand it. Or if you were sixteen and trying to be a rebel! LOL
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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#10
RE: On Occultism
I suppose it helped reading in a guitar magazine (I think it was Guitar One) about how the guy from the Alkaline Trio is a card-carrying member of the Church of Satan purely for the shock value.

Also, looking at the CoS website, I found a list of recommended books and films. Might be a good source to look into, though what an old Mr. Belvedere movie has to do with Satanism is a mystery for the ages.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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