Login

Anomalocaris · (This post was last modified: October 16, 2019 at 8:23 pm by Anomalocaris.)

(October 16, 2019 at 7:58 pm)Belaqua Wrote:
(October 16, 2019 at 7:52 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Then how is it possible for such a Being to be creative?

Boru

Again, there are different ideas about this.

One is that God emanates the world through an abundance of goodness. bonum diffusivum sui

One of the most widespread conceptions of God, or the One, is that it is completely simple, with no parts. Given that, it is impossible for there to be two things: 1) God, and 2) what God wants. Or 1) God, and 2) what God knows.

This whole lecture series looks pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sic5OdUIkgk

The episode here introduces some of the Neoplatonic ideas of the One that found their way into Christianity.

Put it another way, there is nothing there substantive enough for such comprehension as would allow them to be put into your own coherent and defensible words, so you avoid the implication of that by talking up the number of mutually contradictory items on that list of piffles, as if the volume of bullshit would suffice for raising bullshit to the status of insights.

no one · October 16, 2019 at 9:39 pm

god knew one day I'd eventually be born.
Yay me!

Brian37 · October 16, 2019 at 9:52 pm

(October 16, 2019 at 5:43 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: God does stuff, and has done stuff. We're told this constantly.

Why? What could possibly motivate such a being to create or do anything? God knows everything and can do everything. God is complete and unchanging. How could such a being possibly have any motivation whatsoever?

Boru

The concept is completely pointless for the reasons you say.

If God already had everything , which "all powerful" would denote, there would be no need to do anything. If it would anyway, then humans are nothing but his toys, lab rats.

I've said this many times before, and I stand by it. "God/god/gods/deities/spirits" are nothing more than our species projections of our own desires to have control over our environment. Evolution drives life to continue, and humans do not like the prospect of being finite. So in our early evolution we made up bad guesses as to what was regulating our lives and the world and projected our human qualities on the world around us in fictional fantastic super natural form.

Belacqua · October 16, 2019 at 10:31 pm

(October 16, 2019 at 9:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: If God already had everything , which "all powerful" would denote, there would be no need to do anything. If it would anyway, then humans are nothing but his toys, lab rats.

I don't see the reasoning behind this part yet.

Is the argument: "If God didn't need to make us, then we are just his toys or lab rats"?

Why couldn't someone argue that he didn't need to make us, but we are more than just toys or lab rats? What is it about a lack of necessity that makes us toys? Why couldn't someone say: "God didn't need to make us, but he did it anyway, and he made us valuable independent beings"?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see the link in the two concepts.

**The Valkyrie** · October 16, 2019 at 10:48 pm

God looked upon the earth in late 1984 and speaketh thus: “The world is a mess and they’re looking for a saviour.”

Then he caused a girl child to be born in Sydney, Australia and he speaketh again: “Heh. That’ll fuck them up!”

Anomalocaris · October 16, 2019 at 11:03 pm

(October 16, 2019 at 10:31 pm)Belaqua Wrote:
(October 16, 2019 at 9:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: If God already had everything , which "all powerful" would denote, there would be no need to do anything. If it would anyway, then humans are nothing but his toys, lab rats.

I don't see the reasoning behind this part yet.

Is the argument: "If God didn't need to make us, then we are just his toys or lab rats"?

Why couldn't someone argue that he didn't need to make us, but we are more than just toys or lab rats? What is it about a lack of necessity that makes us toys? Why couldn't someone say: "God didn't need to make us, but he did it anyway, and he made us valuable independent beings"?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see the link in the two concepts.

Really? You mean all this time when you trundle our this philosopher or that to showcase your awe inspiring familiarity with all the unimpeachable authorities worthy of knowing you’ve never thought about whether their authorities, as imagined by you, actually stems from making sense a sort of sense you can defend?

Succubus · October 17, 2019 at 12:14 am

(October 16, 2019 at 10:31 pm)Belaqua Wrote:
(October 16, 2019 at 9:52 pm)Brian37 Wrote: If God already had everything , which "all powerful" would denote, there would be no need to do anything. If it would anyway, then humans are nothing but his toys, lab rats.

I don't see the reasoning behind this part yet.

Is the argument: "If God didn't need to make us, then we are just his toys or lab rats"?

Why couldn't someone argue that he didn't need to make us, but we are more than just toys or lab rats? What is it about a lack of necessity that makes us toys? Why couldn't someone say: "God didn't need to make us, but he did it anyway, and he made us valuable independent beings"?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't see the link in the two concepts.

God is omniscient, he knew our thoughts and actions before he created us so in what way are we independent beings? What motivated him to do this?
And please; spare me the free will nonsense.

Belacqua · (This post was last modified: October 17, 2019 at 12:26 am by Belacqua.)

(October 17, 2019 at 12:14 am)Succubus Wrote: God is omniscient, he knew our thoughts and actions before he created us

God, they say, doesn't know things the way people know them. If I say "I know your phone number," that requires the existence of two separate things: me and your phone number.

Since God is perfect unity and simplicity, there can't be two things. God is omniscient in the sense that all possible objects of knowledge are included in him already.

Quote: so in what way are we independent beings?

Our existence isn't independent. We depend on God, who is existence itself. Without existence, nothing would exist.

As for our choices and behavior, I am asking Brian37 why, if God made us without having to, this would make us of necessity NOT valuable, free, or non-toylike. I don't know what his argument is.

Quote:What motivated him to do this?

God has no motivations.

As always, I am only describing here the standard theological arguments.

Succubus · (This post was last modified: October 17, 2019 at 12:47 am by Succubus.)

Yes, theology does have a penchant for redefining Gods attributes. Omniscience doesn't mean all knowing, omnipotence doesn't mean all powerful.

(October 17, 2019 at 12:25 am)Belaqua Wrote: God, they say <snip> As always, I am only describing here the standard theological arguments.

Always with the weasel words. What do you think?

Belacqua · (This post was last modified: October 17, 2019 at 1:00 am by Belacqua.)

(October 17, 2019 at 12:43 am)Succubus Wrote: Omniscience doesn't mean all knowing, omnipotence doesn't mean all powerful.

What I describe has been the standard view since about the time of Aristotle.

Quote:What do you think?

I don't know what's true. I doubt the Christian view very much.
It always puzzles me that people here want to know my own views so much. I am not at all important.

Login
Username:
Password:	Lost Password?
	Remember me