Can the US be relied upon?

[Mr Greene]

Regarding leaving the EU; Brussels has ignored us for 30 years and pushed ahead with projects to which we object at a fundamental level.

Name them. You cannot. And now you have no say in any such because you are no longer a member.

Brussels' arrogance and utter lack of willingness to consider opposing views together with the overriding of democracy (Greece, Cyprus) and trade protectionism makes it impossible to remain a member of the organisation.

Nope. Brussels does not care what lies your press invents. Do you know how bad it is in Britain? The EU had to create the EUmyths website to counter the absurd crap the UK press invented out of whole cloth. Most of what you think the EU is imposing is imaginary. A flight of fancy. Ironically, by leaving, you will have to conform to those same regulations while having given up any say in those regulations.

At some point you have to stand up and say 'no more, we can't be party to that'.

No more what exactly? And party to what exactly? Do you even know?

Even now we have Europeans claiming they don't know why Britain chose to leave,

Sure. Delusions of a long disappeared empire. Even India, once the jewel of the crown, wants nothing to do with Britain. In no small part because you hate brown people and want them orf ur land. Good luck with that.

which really underlines the fact they refuse to listen.

Why should anyone listen to unbridled racism? Why should Europe cave to Britain's delusion of empire?

I'll assume you're smart enough to realise the claim that 'the referendum wasn't a vote regarding the relationship with Brussels' was pure BS and the result was decided by comments made in Brussels, Paris and Berlin.

I will assume you realise that the result was not binding. I will assume that you realise people can change their minds. I will assume that you realise that the choice presented was a fantasy.

The Brexiteers promised 350 million a week extra for the NHS. Still buying that lie? Really?

Name them? Common Agricultural policy, Common Fisheries Policy, Common Currency, EU Army, Federalisation, VAT, Trade Tariffs, Fiscal penalties for infringement of EU regs undermining the justice system, weren't you paying attention at any point in the last three decades?
Who sited the British press? You have only to look at the European press or the EU's own publications. Don't blame us for your own ignorance.
And then you prove you haven't a clue as to why Britain voted to leave and is prepared to leave on WTO terms. Your threats are empty, as is the claim that the EU was supposed to promote friendship between the nations, which is the true tragedy of the whole saga.
You claim racism without evidence, to cover your ignorance.
As I said it wasn't worth listening to the domestic politicians, it was about Brussels. It was Junker, Merkel, and Macron who have ensured that Britain leaves.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Gee, I guess we are demons.

No, you definitely exist.

I've met demons. I used to shave one.

[Pat Mustard]

MoD plan future without US alliance

Well here's a measure of just how far the US has fallen under Trump.

Actually the US has been an unreliable ally since the seventies, with the exception of Western Europe up until the mid-nineties. And even then that reliability for Europe was dependent on the total subordination of Europe's militaries to the US's.

---

Britain is one to talk with their foolish Brexit.

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, though. Obviously, the US is unfit to lead the Boy Scouts with Trump at the helm. There is no international leader for democracy at this point.

Regarding leaving the EU; Brussels has ignored us for 30 years and pushed ahead with projects to which we object at a fundamental level. B

Actually the problem has been for the last thirty years, the EU has been far too willing to listen to the UK. Look at the major problems it is currently facing and their geneses. 1) Pushing the single market into a free market deregulated entity where all areas are subject to the same market forces and pressures; Maggie the milk thief pushed that very hard in the 80's when nobody else in Europe wanted it. 2) The mass expansion in the late '90s, Tony Bliar goaded on by sucessive US presidencies. 3) The Euro, again largely a UK originating idea (although like with expansion at the behest of the US). Yes this time, France wanted it too, but few other countries did. And the Euro was the first stage towards the crash. 4) Continent wide financial deregulation and a Europe wide financial non-regulator, pushed very hard by the City of London. 5) Resistance to tax harmonisation and tougher financial regulations, UK again, though ably assisted by Ireland and the Netherlands. But in all these areas the UK was the EU's genesis and hardest backer of problematic ideas.

I see, in the medium to long term, the UK leaving as a golden opportunity for the EU to right itself and return from the precipice of free-market hard right economics and politics and return to its social democratic roots and goals. Without the malign influence of the UK and its US handler pushing everything towards a Chicago School type hothouse, maybe Europe can return to what made it a great idea in the first place.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, and all that.

[Mr Greene]

Yep, really feeling the friendship and cooperation from Brussels there, no hint of anglophobia at all.
Such a welcoming organisation, not immediately resorting to threats and insults.

Good luck with the command economy, you don't want any of that supply and demand stuff, best to push on with 'decoupling' you can just product-dump any excess on the developing world...

[downbeatplumb]

Yep, really feeling the friendship and cooperation from Brussels there, no hint of anglophobia at all.
Such a welcoming organisation, not immediately resorting to threats and insults.

Good luck with the command economy, you don't want any of that supply and demand stuff, best to push on with 'decoupling' you can just product-dump any excess on the developing world...

Brussels have been bending over backwards to accommodate our whacky demands.

I do fear that the tories are now unchecked by Brussels and free to really screw us.

[Mr Greene]

Yep, really feeling the friendship and cooperation from Brussels there, no hint of anglophobia at all.
Such a welcoming organisation, not immediately resorting to threats and insults.

Good luck with the command economy, you don't want any of that supply and demand stuff, best to push on with 'decoupling' you can just product-dump any excess on the developing world...

Brussels have been bending over backwards to accommodate our whacky demands.

I do fear that the tories are now unchecked by Brussels and free to really screw us.

Yes it was so much better when Blair, Brown and Blair's flatmate from Uni were rubber-stamping every coffee stain that came from Brussels... Well I hope it was a coffee stain...
I'm sure they gave it as much scrutiny as going into Iraq.

[I_am_not_mafia]

Regarding leaving the EU; Brussels has ignored us for 30 years and pushed ahead with projects to which we object at a fundamental level.

Which projects?

Edit: Sorry should have read further on:

Name them? Common Agricultural policy, Common Fisheries Policy, Common Currency, EU Army, Federalisation, VAT, Trade Tariffs, Fiscal penalties for infringement of EU regs undermining the justice system, weren't you paying attention at any point in the last three decades?

So who exactly objects to these at a fundamental level and why?

Personally I'd like an EU army instead of Nato.

[Mr Greene]

Common Agricultural policy;
Rural communities reduced to dependency on benefits and subsidies - see referendum result for rural areas.
Common Fisheries Policy;
Fishing ports reduced to dependency on benefits - see referendum results for fishing ports, Conservationists who are concerned about over-fishing destroying the fish populations around Europe.
Common Currency;
See ERM
EU Army;
See MoD and NATO
Federalisation;
Too many to list
VAT;
Feminists objecting to tax on sanitary products and having the sales data passed to Brussels, companies and charities being used as tax collectors, etc.
Trade Tariffs;
Anyone who uses imported goods.
Fiscal penalties for infringement of EU regs undermining the justice system;
Anyone who objects to the judicial system being used as revenue generation service.

[Abaddon_ire]

Common Agricultural policy;
Rural communities reduced to dependency on benefits and subsidies - see referendum result for rural areas.

So you don't understand CAP. OK.
Would you really prefer the collapse of the UK agricultural base?

Common Fisheries Policy;
Fishing ports reduced to dependency on benefits - see referendum results for fishing ports, Conservationists who are concerned about over-fishing destroying the fish populations around Europe.

Too late. You already destroyed them.

Common Currency;
See ERM

Nothing wrong with a common currency.

EU Army;
See MoD and NATO

That would be a myth.

Federalisation;
Too many to list

Nothing wrong with that per se.

VAT;
Feminists objecting to tax on sanitary products and having the sales data passed to Brussels, companies and charities being used as tax collectors, etc.

Jesus. Did you swallow all of Boris's lies?

Trade Tariffs;
Anyone who uses imported goods.

Because quality standards don't matter, right?

Fiscal penalties for infringement of EU regs undermining the justice system;

Because who needs regulations, standards or a justice system.

Anyone who objects to the judicial system being used as revenue generation service.

Like the UK blatantly does.

[Mr Greene]

Common Agricultural policy;
Rural communities reduced to dependency on benefits and subsidies - see referendum result for rural areas.

So you don't understand CAP. OK.
Would you really prefer the collapse of the UK agricultural base?

Common Fisheries Policy;
Fishing ports reduced to dependency on benefits - see referendum results for fishing ports, Conservationists who are concerned about over-fishing destroying the fish populations around Europe.

Too late. You already destroyed them.

Common Currency;
See ERM

Nothing wrong with a common currency.

EU Army;
See MoD and NATO

That would be a myth.

Federalisation;
Too many to list

Nothing wrong with that per se.

VAT;
Feminists objecting to tax on sanitary products and having the sales data passed to Brussels, companies and charities being used as tax collectors, etc.

Jesus. Did you swallow all of Boris's lies?

Trade Tariffs;
Anyone who uses imported goods.

Because quality standards don't matter, right?

Fiscal penalties for infringement of EU regs undermining the justice system;

Because who needs regulations, standards or a justice system.

Anyone who objects to the judicial system being used as revenue generation service.

Like the UK blatantly does.

Would you like to provide any evidence for your claims or do you expect us to take it on faith?
Gish gallops aren't particularly convincing unless you're talking to an echo chamber. If you were any more inept I'd start thinking you were a Poe.