MoD plan future without US alliance

Well here's a measure of just how far the US has fallen under Trump.

Britain is one to talk with their foolish Brexit.

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, though. Obviously, the US is unfit to lead the Boy Scouts with Trump at the helm. There is no international leader for democracy at this point.

As far as being the "leader" of democracy, I can't think of any era when that moniker was more than braggadocio.

At work.

I hate to give voice but....

American's leading anything event even remotely effectivly went out the window all the way back with Vietnam.

And then there's the issue of the Yanks not turning up when asked/invited but, some what, insisting every one else has to go along and help them carry the ball.

(January 12, 2020 at 8:49 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Britain is one to talk with their foolish Brexit.

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, though. Obviously, the US is unfit to lead the Boy Scouts with Trump at the helm. There is no international leader for democracy at this point.

Regarding leaving the EU; Brussels has ignored us for 30 years and pushed ahead with projects to which we object at a fundamental level. Brussels' arrogance and utter lack of willingness to consider opposing views together with the overriding of democracy (Greece, Cyprus) and trade protectionism makes it impossible to remain a member of the organisation. At some point you have to stand up and say 'no more, we can't be party to that'.
Even now we have Europeans claiming they don't know why Britain chose to leave, which really underlines the fact they refuse to listen.
I'll assume you're smart enough to realise the claim that 'the referendum wasn't a vote regarding the relationship with Brussels' was pure BS and the result was decided by comments made in Brussels, Paris and Berlin.

Gee, I guess we are demons.

(January 13, 2020 at 6:16 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Gee, I guess we are demons.

No, you definitely exist.

We've certainly generated a reasonable doubt that our electorate won't put someone into place who will withdraw unilaterally from previous agreement. I think it will take a generation of not doing that anymore to gain back previous faith that we will abide by the agreements we make.

Hopefully, what with that being the source of our global authority and privileged place at the table, and all. Realistically, no nation is expected to stick to every jot and tittle of every agreement. Situations and interests change as a simple matter of fact. The perception of reliability has never come from set in stone policies and agreements that are never deviated from - but in the expectations that so long as an agreement or commitment is in place, we will be capable of satisfying it, economically or militarily. We can still do that, and even this recent bullshit with ukraine shows how trivial it would be to satisfy terms. We weren't scrounging under the couch cushions for pennies or promising missiles as soon as we figured out how to make them. It wasn't even a significant sum relative to our overall outlay. The cost of maintaining our position in the global hegemony , in this instance, was trivial.....the equipment was available, and the political will was in abundance.

The blatant criminality is a feature of this admin, not a bug......the thing that's truly worrisome, however, is their incompetence. They failed to properly maintain this commitment, they failed to commit the crime, and they failed to cover it up. Zero for three.

(January 13, 2020 at 5:24 am)Mr Greene Wrote:

(January 12, 2020 at 8:49 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: Britain is one to talk with their foolish Brexit.

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment, though. Obviously, the US is unfit to lead the Boy Scouts with Trump at the helm. There is no international leader for democracy at this point.

Regarding leaving the EU; Brussels has ignored us for 30 years and pushed ahead with projects to which we object at a fundamental level.

Name them. You cannot. And now you have no say in any such because you are no longer a member.

(January 13, 2020 at 5:24 am)Mr Greene Wrote: Brussels' arrogance and utter lack of willingness to consider opposing views together with the overriding of democracy (Greece, Cyprus) and trade protectionism makes it impossible to remain a member of the organisation.

Nope. Brussels does not care what lies your press invents. Do you know how bad it is in Britain? The EU had to create the EUmyths website to counter the absurd crap the UK press invented out of whole cloth. Most of what you think the EU is imposing is imaginary. A flight of fancy. Ironically, by leaving, you will have to conform to those same regulations while having given up any say in those regulations.

(January 13, 2020 at 5:24 am)Mr Greene Wrote: At some point you have to stand up and say 'no more, we can't be party to that'.

No more what exactly? And party to what exactly? Do you even know?

(January 13, 2020 at 5:24 am)Mr Greene Wrote: Even now we have Europeans claiming they don't know why Britain chose to leave,

Sure. Delusions of a long disappeared empire. Even India, once the jewel of the crown, wants nothing to do with Britain. In no small part because you hate brown people and want them orf ur land. Good luck with that.

(January 13, 2020 at 5:24 am)Mr Greene Wrote: which really underlines the fact they refuse to listen.

Why should anyone listen to unbridled racism? Why should Europe cave to Britain's delusion of empire?

(January 13, 2020 at 5:24 am)Mr Greene Wrote: I'll assume you're smart enough to realise the claim that 'the referendum wasn't a vote regarding the relationship with Brussels' was pure BS and the result was decided by comments made in Brussels, Paris and Berlin.

I will assume you realise that the result was not binding. I will assume that you realise people can change their minds. I will assume that you realise that the choice presented was a fantasy.

The Brexiteers promised 350 million a week extra for the NHS. Still buying that lie? Really?