#BernieOrBust2020

[Aegon]

I'm sure Joe would LIKE Medicare for all if it were practical. But is it? How much additional tax burden would that require? Is that something it is realistic both parties will get on board with?

That's pragmatism and realism.

There is going to have to be a cultural shift where most people feel that the moral imperative of universal healthcare is more important than their feeling that taxation is bad.

You can't force it. People need to WANT it.

It's certainly possible, but extremely difficult. Most likely will take a decade. We'll need public option transitional period first, for several years.

[The Grand Nudger]

Funny thing..."medicare for all"...? We already pay that cost, and we don't get the product - but I guess we're used to that?

The entirety of the world has been complaining about brain drain - when the smartest or the most well positioned fuck off to america. OFC they do. They can make more money doing the same goddamned thing. That dollar amount is the least dollar amount of savings. A dose costs the same anywhere in the world..except here? The only difference is labor and perception.

Medicare for all will take a generation. We'll eventually ratify it as seniors when elder millennials are the loudest voice. We outnumer boomers today...but in our system, it takes more than the majority of the governed. Let's call it 2040...so anyone expecting a medicare for all president (or candidate) today is 5 elections ahead of that time.

That's why bernie lost...twice...over 8 years. We the People™ are just not ready to hear that message.

[AFTT47]

I'm sure Joe would LIKE Medicare for all if it were practical. But is it? How much additional tax burden would that require? Is that something it is realistic both parties will get on board with?

That's pragmatism and realism.

There is going to have to be a cultural shift where most people feel that the moral imperative of universal healthcare is more important than their feeling that taxation is bad.

You can't force it. People need to WANT it.

It's certainly possible, but extremely difficult. Most likely will take a decade. We'll need public option transitional period first, for several years.

It's just like "Don't ask, Don't tell" had to come before gays openly serving in the military. People get spooked when you change too much too fast. You have to make changes incrementally or there will be so much push-back, your efforts will be defeated.

[TaraJo]

I don't want to say I'm Bernie or Bust, mostly because there were other candidates I would have gladly voted for, but there were two candidates I refused to vote for: Bloomberg and Biden.  And I'm still not voting for Biden.  

I'll be the first to admit, Biden is better than Trump.  But that's like saying that a pile of horse shit is better than a pile of dog shit: even if one is better than the other, they're still both piles of shit.  And I'm tired of voting for the better of two piles of shit.  So I'm voting third party this election.

Admittedly, my feelings on third party voting are influenced by the fact that I live in a VERY red state and I already know Trump could walk out in the middle of the street, shoot an innocent old lady and rape her corpse with a crusifix and do it on live camera while bragging about how great this makes him, and  he would still win Oklahoma in the election.  If I lived in a battleground state like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan or Florida, I might feel differently.  

As it is, the democrats have been working so hard at appealing to moderate/independent voters that they've completely neglected their own base.  Not only that, but since the republicans still field extreme candidates and keep winning with them, that's pushed American politics in general to the right.  I want to be part of the push back to the left.  We don't currently have enough of that push and it's going to hurt us if we don't get one started.  Hell, it's already hurting us, but conservative owned media has been so good at spinning right wing talking points that the people don't realize it.