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"Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
#31
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
(January 4, 2021 at 10:50 am)FlatAssembler Wrote:
(January 4, 2021 at 10:38 am)RozzerusUnrelentus Wrote: My bold.

I pointed out that sweeping statements wouldn't help you, and you come back with a sweeping statement. What would you have society do? Forget Karl Popper - he wasn't voted in to run any country or play any part in societal norms.
What is a "sweeping statement"? English is not my native language, my native language is Croatian.
As for what should a society do with criminals, my suggestion is to simply do nothing. Do nothing until there is a consensus among social scientists what they are about to do actually helps.
What difference does it make if Karl Popper was voted to run any country? He was a social scientist whose ideas are widely accepted today, to such a degree that social scientists get ridiculed for questioning them. Newton never controlled how the planets move, but his theories accurately predict that.

Sweeping statement - tarring all with the same brush. In other words, stating that the qualities/circumstances of one are the same of all, rightly or wrongly. For example, all Irishmen are thick. All left-handers are artistic. All priests are paedophiles. Politicians are altruistic. Prison never helped anyone.

Now justify, 'As for what should a society do with criminals, my suggestion is to simply do nothing...' And say what you'd do in the interim with the criminal dregs that need locking up for public safety and peace of mind.
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#32
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
Let's break the lnaguage barrier.

Stani ili cu pucati.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#33
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
The Grand Nudger Wrote:prison isn't supposed to be a creator -or- a solution of/to psychological problems
Punishment means causing psychological problems to somebody, does not it?
The Grand Nudger Wrote:we were looking for people who..by their imprisonment, would lead to more or less dead or injured -other- people.
To be honest, I did not understand everything you wrote. I assume you mean that prisons are a good thing in that they remove violent criminals from the society. But the fact is that recidivism for violent crimes is very low. Of 100 murderers, only about 1 or 2 of them murder again. And, again, even if recidivism of violent crimes were a problem, putting murderers into prisons from which they will return with even more psychological problems is hardly a solution.
The Grand Nudger Wrote:assuming they had any at all, which I doubt.
Why would somebody who does not have psychological problems murder somebody?
RozzerusUnrelentus Wrote:And say what you'd do in the interim with the criminal dregs that need locking up for public safety and peace of mind.
My friend, recidivism of violent crimes is very low. So low that it is almost not a problem. Out of 100 murderers, only 1 or 2 of them will murder again. And even if recidivism for violent crimes were a problem, how exactly would putting them into places from which they will return with even more psychological problems make the society safer? If anything, it should make the society less safe.
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#34
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
(January 4, 2021 at 11:37 am)FlatAssembler Wrote:
The Grand Nudger Wrote:prison isn't supposed to be a creator -or- a solution of/to psychological problems
Punishment means causing psychological problems to somebody, does not it?
In practice or in principle?  I would like to believe that at least some people just don't know why or that what theyre doing is wrong, and supplying them with that information would prevent some amount of human misery.

I rolled up soooooo many pimps.

Quote:To be honest, I did not understand everything you wrote. I assume you mean that prisons are a good thing in that they remove violent criminals from the society. But the fact is that recidivism for violent crimes is very low. Of 100 murderers, only about 1 or 2 of them murder again. And, again, even if recidivism of violent crimes were a problem, putting murderers into prisons from which they will return with even more psychological problems is hardly a solution.
...........................well.

Recidivism is a legit subject, but idk what kind of data you have where you're from, especially given recent history.   Again, I very strongly suspect that at least some f the people I rolled up never committed the crime, and, beyond that......that recidivism (or initial commission of a crime) were negatively affected by how we treated subjects in custody.
Quote:Why would somebody who does not have psychological problems murder somebody?
?
How much time you got, buddy?

It's a pleasant fiction that well adjusted people never have reason to kill some other person. We -always- have reason to kill another person...and that might explain why we do it.

I wasn't scouring the countryside for murderers...I was scouring the countryside for war criminals. People who opted to do terrible things beyond the regular purview of law.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#35
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
What is meant by "believe in prisons"? That they exist or that they're just punishments for misdeeds?
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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#36
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
(January 4, 2021 at 7:34 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: What is meant by "believe in prisons"? That they exist or that they're just punishments for misdeeds?

Yes. The impassioned aren't usually good at communication.
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#37
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
(January 5, 2021 at 12:32 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote:
(January 4, 2021 at 7:34 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: What is meant by "believe in prisons"? That they exist or that they're just punishments for misdeeds?

Yes. The impassioned aren't usually good at communication.

In Flat A's defense...English isn't his first language and he has to stop posting in Latin.
  
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
                                      
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#38
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
It isn't widely known but followers of my religion who accidently find themselves in hell, all get a "get out of hell free" card with their very first donation.

It is widely known that all atheists go to hell, so my crack team of operatives in hell have found a way out and it's fortunate for you that I'm now sharing this information to you for free. Once you find yourself in hell, our operatives will find you and smuggle you out, so that you no longer have to spend an eternity there. How boring.

Once out, we set you up with your own place and piece of land like you always dreamed of having. You are free to travel from our realm to anywhere your heart desires. You can even visit your relatives in heaven with a special one time donation to our pearly gates foundation. We will set you up with a new identity so you can pass by the gates of heaven for a short period of time to say hello to your loved ones. Don't stay too long though, you know who might get suspicious.

So remember, hell doesn't have to be hell, if you know the right people.
(wink wink nudge nudge)

Join our wonderful family today with a constant pledge of $19.99 automatically debited from your checking account each month. All promises are guaranteed. Should you find yourself in hell and our operatives don't find you within 30 min or less, we'll refund all your money as soon as you return to the world of the living and request it.
Insanity - Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result
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#39
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
At work.

To FlatAssembler. .. but to forum folks in general.

Isn't "Near death experience" kind of synonymous with "Only slightly pregnant" ?

I mean, surely only accounts of returned to life from completely dead people count, right?

Not just 'Mostly dead' or such. We only want to hear from the folks who've gone the whole hog and totally deceased before 'Undying' again.

Am I correct?

Tongue
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#40
RE: "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?"
(January 4, 2021 at 5:57 am)rado84 Wrote: Varg Vikernes who I respect mostly bc he likes to burn churches

from Wikipedia:

Quote:On 6 June 1992, the Fantoft Stave Church, dating from the 12th century and considered architecturally significant, was burned to the ground by arson. The cover of Burzum's EP Aske ("ashes") is a photograph of the destroyed church.[29] By January 1993, arson attacks had occurred on at least seven other major stave churches, including one on Christmas Eve of 1992.[7]Vikernes was found guilty of several of these cases: the arson and attempted arson of Åsane Church and Storetveit ChurchinBergen, the arson of Skjold Church in Vindafjord, and the arson of  in Oslo.

This is not a man we should respect. 

You claim you were kicked off Facebook for atheism, but I wonder if it had to do with advocating serious crime.
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