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The Religious Void
#1
The Religious Void
A brief thought for discussion:

It's not difficult to find religious behavior in nonreligious places. The US elections is a recent example of how easily cult-like and religious undertones begin to emerge in politics and otherwise secular groups. We are fundamentally religious creatures, and seem to default towards this mode of thinking when gathered too strongly into groups.

My question is this:

Is it better to have a well defined religious structure in which religious activities can exist rather than no structure at all; and does that successfully deminish religious behavior elsewhere?

In my own experience, being raised Christian does seem to stop me from having religious affiliation with other groups like politics. And I generally find it odd when I meet a Christian that is religiously political.
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#2
RE: The Religious Void
(January 3, 2021 at 5:21 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: A brief thought for discussion:

It's not difficult to find religious behavior in nonreligious places. The US elections is a recent example of how easily cult-like and religious undertones begin to emerge in politics and otherwise secular groups. We are fundamentally religious creatures, and seem to default towards this mode of thinking when gathered too strongly into groups.

My question is this:

Is it better to have a well defined religious structure in which religious activities can exist rather than no structure at all; and does that successfully deminish religious behavior elsewhere?

In my own experience, being raised Christian does seem to stop me from having religious affiliation with other groups like politics. And I generally find it odd when I meet a Christian that is religiously political.

Clearly, having a well-defined religious structure doesn’t diminish religious activities outside of that structure. There are exceptions, of course, notably some Amish sects to whom political activities are expressly forbidden. But most structured religions - the Catholic and Anglican churches, Islam, Presbyterians and Baptists, to name a few - obviously have no compunctions about engaging in politics.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#3
RE: The Religious Void
(January 3, 2021 at 5:21 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: A brief thought for discussion:

It's not difficult to find religious behavior in nonreligious places. The US elections is a recent example of how easily cult-like and religious undertones begin to emerge in politics and otherwise secular groups. We are fundamentally religious creatures, and seem to default towards this mode of thinking when gathered too strongly into groups.

My question is this:

Is it better to have a well defined religious structure in which religious activities can exist rather than no structure at all; and does that successfully deminish religious behavior elsewhere?

In my own experience, being raised Christian does seem to stop me from having religious affiliation with other groups like politics. And I generally find it odd when I meet a Christian that is religiously political.

I'd have to know what you mean by "religious behavior" because it sounds like you're equivocating all over the place.
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#4
RE: The Religious Void
(January 3, 2021 at 5:42 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But most structured religions - the Catholic and Anglican churches, Islam, Presbyterians and Baptists, to name a few - obviously have no compunctions about engaging in politics.

Hmm I'm not necessarily suggesting that religious people and institutions are not involved in politics. Rather, whether the particular kind of involvement people have is religious in nature.

For example, the psychologist Jonathan Haidt described some campus protests that occur when conservative speakers are invited to be religious. The protesters behave as if the campus grounds were sacred, and the speakers are impure, and their presence threatens the holiness of the place. Likewise, some Trump supporters do have an uncanny cult-like attitude towards the politician.

So the question is whether having an actual religious outlet prevents this kind of religious behavior in otherwise secular places (not just politics).
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#5
RE: The Religious Void
"as if" -- that's figurative language; religions like Christianity -- that's literal language. If you're just going to jerk off with equivocations without any answer, then this is a waste of time.

Ninian Smart defined 7 dimensions of typical religions. Comparing the "behaviors" you mention makes clear that the categories are distinct.
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#6
RE: The Religious Void
(January 3, 2021 at 7:09 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Ninian Smart defined 7 dimensions of typical religions. Comparing the "behaviors" you mention makes clear that the categories are distinct.

What are the 7 dimensions?
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#7
RE: The Religious Void
(January 3, 2021 at 7:13 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:
(January 3, 2021 at 7:09 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Ninian Smart defined 7 dimensions of typical religions.  Comparing the "behaviors" you mention makes clear that the categories are distinct.

What are the 7 dimensions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninian_Sma...f_religion
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#8
RE: The Religious Void
(January 3, 2021 at 7:06 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:
(January 3, 2021 at 5:42 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But most structured religions - the Catholic and Anglican churches, Islam, Presbyterians and Baptists, to name a few - obviously have no compunctions about engaging in politics.

Hmm I'm not necessarily suggesting that religious people and institutions are not involved in politics. Rather, whether the particular kind of involvement people have is religious in nature.

For example, the psychologist Jonathan Haidt described some campus protests that occur when conservative speakers are invited to be religious. The protesters behave as if the campus grounds were sacred, and the speakers are impure, and their presence threatens the holiness of the place. Likewise, some Trump supporters do have an uncanny cult-like attitude towards the politician.

So the question is whether having an actual religious outlet prevents this kind of religious behavior in otherwise secular places (not just politics).

It looks as though you’ve answered your own question. If people - religious and irreligious - engage in religion-like behaviour, it seems moot as to whether being part of a structured religion mitigates religious behaviour in non-religious arenas.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#9
RE: The Religious Void
(January 3, 2021 at 7:16 pm)Angrboda Wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninian_Sma...f_religion

The dimensions seem to be useful for defining a religious body, however I'm more concerned with the behavior of it's members. For example, I don't believe the DNC or the GOP are religious institutions, but I do think some members are engaging with them religiously. It's bringing out of them a religious-type following.

I do want to clarify that my focus isn't exclusively on politics. It could be fashion, the chess club, or multi-level marketing. Are people more likely to engage with these religiously, in the absence of an actual religion to which they can adhere to.

(January 3, 2021 at 7:28 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It looks as though you’ve answered your own question. If people - religious and irreligious - engage in religion-like behaviour, it seems moot as to whether being part of a structured religion mitigates religious behaviour in non-religious arenas.

Boru

I think the mitigation (if it exists) is interesting for two reasons. Firstly, because it could still correlate with how involved you are within your particular religion. Meaning that a nun who is invested in her religious outlet is less likely to behave religiously towards politics; but a nominal christian that isn't as invested might still behave religiously towards other organizations.

Secondly, because I do wonder what the outcome is. For example, our brains are wired to protect against scarcity, and this leads to obesity when food is plentiful. So if we're wired to behave religiously, is it better to do so within a religious institution than outside of one? Are there any interesting repercussions when there's a mismatch of religious behavior towards secular groups?
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#10
RE: The Religious Void
(January 3, 2021 at 5:21 pm)John 6IX Breezy Wrote: We are fundamentally religious creatures, and seem to default towards this mode of thinking when gathered too strongly into groups.

Their religious devotion to Trump is their lack of objectivity and therefore lack of scrutiny toward him, meaning that they engage in confirmation bias and many other logical fallacies in order to create the delusion that he is good and right.

Now if it is in human nature to be delusional then it's something that people need to work on to weed it out. But rather it seems that people are misinformed, there are many lies floating around, they are confused, especially since critical thinking is not exactly taught to people - those are all factors, rather than just people being "fundamentally religious creatures" just as is the case that the countries with least educated people are mostly religious.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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