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Deportation of Jews and local help
#11
RE: Deportation of Jews and local help
(January 12, 2021 at 10:53 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:
(January 12, 2021 at 10:50 am)Deesse23 Wrote: That "gun control in Weimar" argment is so silly, its beyond absurd.
Thats why i am not gonna go into details, its ab-fucking-surd
Chemtrails and flat Earth-absurd.

Please elaborate. Did the Weimar Republic not already have strict gun laws before the Nazis took power?

Availiability of guns is not the point, its culture, aka the willingness to use them.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#12
RE: Deportation of Jews and local help
(January 12, 2021 at 12:57 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:
(January 12, 2021 at 10:53 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Please elaborate. Did the Weimar Republic not already have strict gun laws before the Nazis took power?

Availiability of guns is not the point, its culture, aka the willingness to use them.
The willingness to use them is to remain unknown - as they did not have any to use.
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#13
RE: Deportation of Jews and local help
To that point, most people, even most people with guns, are unwilling to use them. This holds true not just with respect to whatever germans were allowed to have guns and had a reason to use them - it holds with the victims of the state as well. They also had guns, which they never managed to effectively employ in their own defense, and not for a lack of trying.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#14
RE: Deportation of Jews and local help
(January 12, 2021 at 7:35 am)Deesse23 Wrote:
(January 12, 2021 at 3:05 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Deportation of Jews to death camps during ww2 required a very little number of German soldiers as Nazis occupied Europe, and that's because they had a lot of help from the local community of people. In fact, Nazis would not be nearly so proficient without the eager help of locals.

In other words, people were already ideologically prepared to get rid of/ kill Jews.

Like when Germans deported 100 thousand Jews from Hungary they only needed about 100 soldiers because the Hungarians did the rest, and it was a similar situation with other European countries.





So where do you think that that anti-Jewish ideology came from in non-German people who were not subjected to anti-Jewish propaganda?

It seems to me that it came from the Catholic Church and other Christian denominations with them touting "Christ-killers propaganda" for centuries.

Antisemitism was wide spread across europe, for a thousand years, and yes....it was the church. Afaik the protestants even more than catholics. The worst porgom happened in Russia, and that was orthodox even.

(January 12, 2021 at 6:53 am)Nomad Wrote: The churches had a lot to do with it, especially as they were sevrrely anti-semitic in their propganda. But the civil authorities were heavily involved too as the Jews, being relatively few in number and politically weak, were a good source of shakedown money when finances were strained from the king's excesses and a good scapegoat when the king's idiocy lead to disaster.

The Jews were in a similar boat to other marginalised groups throughout Europe, hence why groups like the Romany got it just as bad in nazi Germany.

Actually, the money was the reason the nobles often protected the jews from being persecuted. They knew that the jews and their trades were excellent sources for tax revenue.

But when things when tits up, as they invariably do when the chinless wonders are in charge, the Jews were also a good source of extortion money. And the nobility were very quick to turn on their lenders back in the day.
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#15
RE: Deportation of Jews and local help
(January 12, 2021 at 12:57 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:
(January 12, 2021 at 10:53 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Please elaborate. Did the Weimar Republic not already have strict gun laws before the Nazis took power?

Availiability of guns is not the point, its culture, aka the willingness to use them.

I'm sorry. I'm having trouble making sense of your objection to my observation that the Weimar Republic had very strict gun laws before the Nazis came to power; therefore there weren't many firearms for the Nazis to seize anyway. What is it exactly that you think I'm trying to argue?
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#16
RE: Deportation of Jews and local help
Their main tactic to seize contraband was communal responsibility. If they found a gun in the ghetto, an entire block would die. This allowed them to leverage those few people suited to the job of executing a city block to their fullest extent, and by default removed many of the people who would have or could have been induced to fight back, and made anyone who cared about -anyone- into an eager nazi collaborator within the ghettos.

The conditions necessary for successful resistance simply did not exist, and the issue in a militarized state not, in any credible way, being the availability of weapons. There were firefights in the ghetto. German gun control measures, such as they were, didn't prevent that. Just as people were lready primed to help deport jews, they were primed to abandon them when it became a danger to themselves. This meant that any jewish resistance (and there was one, despite the myths) lacked the necessary support of a significant portion of "legitimate" society. In the beginning, they had it, and the nazis had considerable trouble enforcing their laws. It was work done on other people, the go alongs and the men next door, that most effectively shut the coffin on a jewish resistance being able to succeed.

An army of millions without the assent of their society is completely ineffective, even if it could be mobilized. Meanwhile, the death squads..while being relatively small compared to their task, did have the assent of their society. The german nazi in the ghetto firefight knew that should they fall on the street, their children would still survive the night. That they would be taken care of by helpful others in their society - not rounded up and executed.
It's bad for the rest of the world when americans are paid so little they can only afford chocolate mined by child slaves and clothes made in overseas sweatshops. - Robyn Pennacchia
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#17
RE: Deportation of Jews and local help
(January 13, 2021 at 10:13 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:
(January 12, 2021 at 12:57 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: Availiability of guns is not the point, its culture, aka the willingness to use them.

I'm sorry. I'm having trouble making sense of your objection to my observation that the Weimar Republic had very strict gun laws before the Nazis came to power; therefore there weren't many firearms for the Nazis to seize anyway. What is it exactly that you think I'm trying to argue?

My reply was more towards OLBs post than yours, sorry. Should have replied directly to him, rather than to your comment.
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#18
RE: Deportation of Jews and local help
(January 13, 2021 at 1:00 pm)Deesse23 Wrote:
(January 13, 2021 at 10:13 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: I'm sorry. I'm having trouble making sense of your objection to my observation that the Weimar Republic had very strict gun laws before the Nazis came to power; therefore there weren't many firearms for the Nazis to seize anyway. What is it exactly that you think I'm trying to argue?

My reply was more towards OLBs post than yours, sorry. Should have replied directly to him, rather than to your comment.

No worries, it doesn't take much to confuse me in my old age. Cool
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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