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Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
#21
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
(June 15, 2021 at 9:00 am)no one Wrote: Also, Ayn Rand was partially responsible for 2112, so, I hearby absolve her of all allegations.

Furthermore, she is granted complete and total immunity to any and all further actions.

Thank you very much, have a nice day.
Stay safe out there.

Ayn Rand was one of the most influential voices to the modern "fuck you I got mine" movement. Anyone can split hairs all they want. But her core argument was "greed is good" and predated Gordon Gecko in "Wall Street".
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#22
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
Like many writers and thinkers who developed sound critiques of an ideology, her solution erred in the opposing mindset.  Just because socialism has it's faults doesn't mean Marx's critique of capitalism isn't useful and on point.  Both gave us good tools, so there's no need to denounce either.  Nor a need to fully immerse.  

Unless you want to create the best progressive rock album ever.  Then, it's okay.
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#23
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
Irony: the one positive impact she left on the world and popular culture is in a form she wouldn’t touch with a sixty-foot pole.
I was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad.

[Image: harmlesskitchen.png]

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#24
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
(June 15, 2021 at 8:52 am)Brian37 Wrote:
(June 14, 2021 at 10:47 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Okay, a little more info: for the record, during the Nazi regime, it was given away for free to any newlywed couple and soldier fighting at the front. However, he made no law saying that everyone in Germany had to have a copy. That one, you're probably thinking of Mao's Little Red Book. That said, I am told it was popular enough that in libraries, it was in high demand. Admittedly, probably more because of who wrote it than the content. If literally anyone else but the Fuhrer wrote it, hardly anyone would bother with it. Even since he did, it was one of those books people owned, but almost never read.

As for the claims that Hitler disavowed the book, I wouldn't use terms that strong, but he did tell Hans Frank that "If I had had any idea in 1924 that I would have become Reich chancellor, I never would have written the book." Not much of a public disavowal, but still a sign that Hitler wasn't totally pleased with what he wrote over a decade after, especially the fact that people were holding him to these grandiose ideas he wrote about when, in a sane political system, his political career would have been finished and he'd be in jail for life instead of getting sentenced to what basically amounts to an unusually long writer's retreat.

Did the book only get as popular as it did after Hitler took power? Yes. Was that because he had brainwashed the public? Well, that really depends on what you consider brainwashing. It's more akin to what Trump did for the Republican base but with a Hell of a lot more control of his own PR (the fact that he wouldn't get into the full bugfuck insane mode until the 1940s at least certainly helped) and fewer people were able to call him on his bullshit (partly because of censorship, and partly because there was no easy spread of information like the Internet that could even logistically do so at the time).

He didn't have to make a law saying everyone had to have a copy. He was no humanitarian. This is splitting hairs. It was unwritten by the time he gained power, that if you didn't have a copy in your house, you had a very severe likelihood that someone would out you, family, friends, help. 

Hitler all arguments aside, DID get rich off his book.

Yes, he did get rich off the book, no one said otherwise.

As for the rest of your post, saying the same wrong thing over and over doesn’t make you right.

Boru
Ignorance is never valid grounds for the rejection of established facts.
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#25
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
(June 15, 2021 at 10:25 am)Ranjr Wrote: Like many writers and thinkers who developed sound critiques of an ideology, her solution erred in the opposing mindset.  Just because socialism has it's faults doesn't mean Marx's critique of capitalism isn't useful and on point.  Both gave us good tools, so there's no need to denounce either.  Nor a need to fully immerse.  

Unless you want to create the best progressive rock album ever.  Then, it's okay.

She didn't develop sound critiques of systems she wasn't against. She built rotten strawmen and then singularly failed to tear them down. Her whole corpus was the wailing screed of a spoilt child convinced she knew everything while revealing that she knew fuck all. Her whole problem sith communism was that Lenin didn't see her "obvious greatness" not the evils within the system and her "solution" would have lasted roughly a half a day before turning into cannabalistic anarchy.

She was worthless, her books were worthless (in fact her best book Anthem was an undisguised theft of the much better We by Zelmatyn), and her worldview an affront to allmoral people.
[Image: percent_1]
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#26
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
At work.

(June 15, 2021 at 2:00 pm)Nomad Wrote:
(June 15, 2021 at 10:25 am)Ranjr Wrote: Like many writers and thinkers who developed sound critiques of an ideology, her solution erred in the opposing mindset.  Just because socialism has it's faults doesn't mean Marx's critique of capitalism isn't useful and on point.  Both gave us good tools, so there's no need to denounce either.  Nor a need to fully immerse.  

Unless you want to create the best progressive rock album ever.  Then, it's okay.

She didn't develop sound critiques of systems she wasn't against. She built rotten strawmen and then singularly failed to tear them down. Her whole corpus was the wailing screed of a spoilt child convinced she knew everything while revealing that she knew fuck all. Her whole problem sith communism was that Lenin didn't see her "obvious greatness" not the evils within the system and her "solution" would have lasted roughly a half a day before turning into cannabalistic anarchy.

She was worthless, her books were worthless (in fact her best book Anthem was an undisguised theft of the much better We by Zelmatyn), and her worldview an affront to allmoral people.

Sooooo...... a bit like George R.R. Martin then?

Asking for a freind.

Coffee
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#27
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
(June 15, 2021 at 2:00 pm)Nomad Wrote: She didn't develop sound critiques of systems she wasn't against.  She built rotten strawmen and then singularly failed to tear them down.  Her whole corpus was the wailing screed of a spoilt child convinced she knew everything while revealing that she knew fuck all.  Her whole problem sith communism was that Lenin didn't see her "obvious greatness" not the evils within the system and her "solution" would have lasted roughly a half a day before turning into cannabalistic anarchy.

She was worthless, her books were worthless (in fact her best book Anthem was an undisguised theft of the much better We by Zelmatyn), and her worldview an affront to allmoral people.

She showed collectivism stifles individuality.  That's valid and sound.  But taken too far you get anti-maskers.  I don't get worked up over it or seek moral high ground.
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#28
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
I've never bothered to read Ayn Rand. Upon asking for details in a philosophy group discussing Ayn Rand, the only response I got was that I had to read the books to understand.

Ayn Rand's objectivism is a cult, pure and simple.
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#29
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
Many years ago I purchased "Atlas Shrugged" after hearing my mother say time and again that it was one of her favorite books. Over many years I started to read it and didn't get far, putting it back on the shelf for another time when I could maybe stay with it. A few years ago it went into the donation pile of books. Nothing by Rand is on my list of anything I want to strain my eyes over.
       I am the storm.                                                             
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#30
RE: Ayn Rand blamed for current state of America
The only thing of interest in Rands's work is how you can make "heroes" so vicious, callous, and self-absorbed that villains in other works seem downright saintly by comparison.
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”
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