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Why is Vatican a state?
#1
Why is Vatican a state?
Really, why does the Vatican have a status of a state, although it has no permanent population, industry, transport, utility system, currency, or any other of the distinguishing features of a true state? And yet its statehood lets Vatican send its representatives to deliberate on committees of the United Nations, where it wields its vote and influence against even mildly progressive policies like the distribution of condoms to fight HIV/AIDS.

So isn't Vatican's statehood absurd?
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#2
RE: Why is Vatican a state?
It does seem weird but I want Washington D.C. to become a state so I can't hold all those things against the Vatican. shrug
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#3
RE: Why is Vatican a state?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City
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#4
RE: Why is Vatican a state?
(November 10, 2020 at 4:23 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Really, why does the Vatican have a status of a state, although it has no permanent population, industry, transport, utility system, currency, or any other of the distinguishing features of a true state? And yet its statehood lets Vatican send its representatives to deliberate on committees of the United Nations, where it wields its vote and influence against even mildly progressive policies like the distribution of condoms to fight HIV/AIDS.

So isn't Vatican's statehood absurd?

It isn’t really absurd. The Catholic population didn’t want the Kingdom of Italy to have authority over the Church, and the Church didn’t want the responsibility of having to deal with the secular governance of Rome. The Lateran Treaty was actually a pretty clever way to not give both sides what they didn’t want. It’s debatable, but failure to set up the Vatican as its own city state may very well have triggered a civil war.

Boru

Edit: Yeah, what our favourite lizard said. Smile
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#5
RE: Why is Vatican a state?
Discord, confusion and disarray are also states.

Apparently they'll let ANYBODY join....



Razz
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#6
RE: Why is Vatican a state?
(November 10, 2020 at 5:29 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It isn’t really absurd. The Catholic population didn’t want the Kingdom of Italy to have authority over the Church, and the Church didn’t want the responsibility of having to deal with the secular governance of Rome. The Lateran Treaty was actually a pretty clever way to not give both sides what they didn’t want. It’s debatable, but failure to set up the Vatican as its own city state may very well have triggered a civil war.

Boru

Edit: Yeah, what our favourite lizard said. Smile

Oh really. They didn't want to deal with the secular government. So if the Scientologist population decides to make their own state because they don't want to deal with the secular government, would you also find it not absurd?

Besides, what kind of responsibility does Chruch have in any of the other countries? They don't pay taxes anywhere, they tell people for who to vote, they are frequently entangled with the armies, and clergy meets with state officials to boost their ratings if they choose to. So I don't see Italy to be particularly different.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#7
RE: Why is Vatican a state?
It's the DC of the Catholic Church...it's its own entity.
 “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ~Albert Einstein                                                 
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#8
RE: Why is Vatican a state?
(November 10, 2020 at 6:14 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(November 10, 2020 at 5:29 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It isn’t really absurd. The Catholic population didn’t want the Kingdom of Italy to have authority over the Church, and the Church didn’t want the responsibility of having to deal with the secular governance of Rome. The Lateran Treaty was actually a pretty clever way to not give both sides what they didn’t want. It’s debatable, but failure to set up the Vatican as its own city state may very well have triggered a civil war.

Boru

Edit: Yeah, what our favourite lizard said. Smile

Oh really. They didn't want to deal with the secular government. So if the Scientologist population decides to make their own state because they don't want to deal with the secular government, would you also find it not absurd?

Besides, what kind of responsibility does Chruch have in any of the other countries? They don't pay taxes anywhere, they tell people for who to vote, they are frequently entangled with the armies, and clergy meets with state officials to boost their ratings if they choose to. So I don't see Italy to be particularly different.

They didn’t want to deal with governance, not the government. Although there was little love lost between the Holy See and the Kingdom Of Italy, the Pope was perfectly happy to deal with Mussolini to solve ‘the Roman question’. Not wanting to deal with governance simply means that the Pope didn’t want the headache of governing a secular state.

The Pope accepted that, in the 20th Century, he could no longer have pretensions of direct secular authority. And Mussolini understood that if he were to make the Vatican subject to secular law, he’d have 40 million enraged Catholics on his hands. The Lateran treaty solved both problems - it preserved the ecclesiastical authority of the Pope and kept Mussolini from having an armed uprising to deal with.

None of this should be taken as a defense of the Church or its actions. You asked why the Vatican is a state. This is your answer.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#9
RE: Why is Vatican a state?
(November 10, 2020 at 4:23 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: Really, why does the Vatican have a status of a state, although it has no permanent population, industry, transport, utility system, currency, or any other of the distinguishing features of a true state? And yet its statehood lets Vatican send its representatives to deliberate on committees of the United Nations, where it wields its vote and influence against even mildly progressive policies like the distribution of condoms to fight HIV/AIDS.

So isn't Vatican's statehood absurd?

It is an Italian funded museum because Italians cant let go of it. Much like Buckingham Palace is funded by Britain because people can let go of that history.

Plus despite the Pope's claim of poverty, worldwide the Church rakes in billions and has global investments. It is a tourist business locally and draws in tourists from all over the world. But worldwide it is a business.
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#10
RE: Why is Vatican a state?
The world needs a pedophile sanctuary?
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem




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