Marxism, what you got?

[Spongebob]

To try and pull this thread back from the abyss, consider how disproportionate our economic groups are in the US today. I understand the complexity of issues that got us here, but here we are and capitalism and our usual way of doing business does not look promising to change the way things are. Comparatively, the working class of the mid 20th century was doing quite well.

For the sake of argument, would anyone like to rebut that last statement? Are we just convincing ourselves that things are worse than they really are?

[Brian37]

...and the thread descends into nonsense.

World peace depends on not taking oneself so seriously.

[Ahriman]

To try and pull this thread back from the abyss, consider how disproportionate our economic groups are in the US today.  I understand the complexity of issues that got us here, but here we are and capitalism and our usual way of doing business does not look promising to change the way things are.  Comparatively, the working class of the mid 20th century was doing quite well.

For the sake of argument, would anyone like to rebut that last statement?  Are we just convincing ourselves that things are worse than they really are?

If you live in America, things will not change. And yes, absolutely yes, many Americans have convinced themselves everything is malevolent chaos, but everything is actually fine.

[vulcanlogician]

To try and pull this thread back from the abyss, consider how disproportionate our economic groups are in the US today.  I understand the complexity of issues that got us here, but here we are and capitalism and our usual way of doing business does not look promising to change the way things are.  Comparatively, the working class of the mid 20th century was doing quite well.

For the sake of argument, would anyone like to rebut that last statement?  Are we just convincing ourselves that things are worse than they really are?

I think that income disparity is a dangerous state of affairs. Not sure about "being better off in the mid 20th Century." (Maybe. I'm no economist.) A strong middle class creates stability, that's for sure. But I think capitalism is good only insofar as it serves the working class.

Capitalism does serve the working class by fulfilling its consumerist desires. And that's important... something centrally planned economies struggle with. But I also think the working class needs more than its consumerist desires fulfilled. Healthcare, education, stable living environment. Capitalism leaves many people out in the cold as far as these go.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

...and the thread descends into nonsense.

World peace depends on not taking oneself so seriously.

No, it really doesn’t.

Boru

[Foxaèr]

but everything is actually fine.

Oh, to reside in Lala Land, what a dream.

[Ahriman]

but everything is actually fine.

Oh, to reside in Lala Land, what a dream.

I already live in Heaven, in my mind. That's what I want, and that's what I encourage. It's not for everybody.

[Spongebob]

I think that income disparity is a dangerous state of affairs. Not sure about "being better off in the mid 20th Century." (Maybe. I'm no economist.) A strong middle class creates stability, that's for sure. But I think capitalism is good only insofar as it serves the working class.

Capitalism does serve the working class by fulfilling its consumerist desires. And that's important... something centrally planned economies struggle with. But I also think the working class needs more than its consumerist desires fulfilled. Healthcare, education, stable living environment. Capitalism leaves many people out in the cold as far as these go.

I don't think comparing say, 1960 to 2021 is exact math but the general consensus is that workers are worse off now in several categories:  Wage stagnation, buying power, cost of higher education, ability to afford medical care just to name a few.  In 1960 a household of 3 people could be easily sustained by one worker doing a low skilled job.  That's not really possible anymore unless you adhere to a very strict regime of spending.  Another way to look at it is the cost index of basic items like a home, automobile, utilities...etc.  All have increase far more than the average wage.  There may be some exceptions to this of course.

Of course I don't want someone to go off on a tangent and start ranting about the rampant consumerism of today, which I agree is a factor.  The proliferation of technology makes the comparison more difficult because we all utilize far more technological consumer goods today than our 1960 counterpart did.  No one needs a flat screen TV in every room of the house, for instance.  But some technologies have become essentials of living.  An Internet connection is far more than a luxury now; it's pretty close to being a necessity.

---

If you live in America, things will not change. And yes, absolutely yes, many Americans have convinced themselves everything is malevolent chaos, but everything is actually fine.

Just how old are you?  I have seen significant change in my lifetime and if I look back to my grandfather's time, the change is profound.  What makes you say "everything is actually fine?"  Data please.

[HappySkeptic]

Capitalism does serve the working class by fulfilling its consumerist desires. And that's important... something centrally planned economies struggle with. But I also think the working class needs more than its consumerist desires fulfilled. Healthcare, education, stable living environment. Capitalism leaves many people out in the cold as far as these go.

In the future, all we will be able to afford is luxuries (I'm sure I got that from somewhere, but I can't find a match on google).

[Ahriman]

Just how old are you?  I have seen significant change in my lifetime and if I look back to my grandfather's time, the change is profound.  What makes you say "everything is actually fine?"  Data please.

I am 30 years old. WalletHub recently did a study to determine what the happiest cities in America were. My hometown, and where I currently live, Virginia Beach, ranked 46 out of 182 cities. I would consider that a B rating, like if you took a test at school and the teacher gave you a letter rating, that kind of rating. A B rating is not bad at all. Note, that I didn't say "everything is amazing", I just said "everything is fine". I would give my own life an A rating, which, according to my interpretation of the WalletHub study, means that I'm happier than most other people living in Virginia Beach, which would make sense.