On the lunacy of free will

[The Grand Nudger]

Don't you have the same problem, Ahri? Are you aware that the vast majority of what you've shared with us here would be deemed incorrect or heretical by every majority faith on earth.

Why can't you just go with the flow?

[Spongebob]

Atheists have a little problem, I'm not sure why, but they all seem to have the same problem. They can't just go with the flow. It's not because they're smarter, or better people, but just because they have this intellectual problem that forces them to consider themselves different than their religious peers.

But aren't you a former Catholic?  Hello, pot, you sure are black.


I think you are finally beginning to see the light, though.  I certainly don't claim to be smarter or better as a person (though my ethical standards are more consistent than most Christians I know).  And yes, my "problem" as it were, is an intellectual one, as in through reason and intellectual endeavor I determined that Christianity made no sense, so I left.  Both stupid and smart people can get caught up in religion.  This was no different in any other religion that I considered, so I didn't give in to them either.  But now, considering your former Catholic background, how are you any different than us?  We simply rejected one more god than you did.

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That circle Ahri is painting himself into is getting mighty small.

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@Ahriman You know there's nothing dishonorable about admitting you were wrong or hadn't considered something, but there is a tremendous downside to continuing to stick with an intellectually corrupt position.

[Ahriman]

I am no longer a practicing Catholic, but that doesn't mean I'm an atheist. I have my own conception of God. How much "intellectual endeavor" does it take it to figure out a religion isn't right for you? Not much. You just took the lazy route and decided to reject all things spiritual, wholesale.

[Spongebob]

I am no longer a practicing Catholic, but that doesn't mean I'm an atheist. I have my own conception of God. 

Didn't say you were an atheist.  But you, yourself have stated that you do not believe in the Christian god.  So you chose to reject that god for what reason?  Just to be different?  Do you also reject the Hindu gods?  What about the Chinese religions?  Japanese?  Wicca?  Jewish god?  Mazda?  Do you accept all those gods as real or do you have just one that you prefer?  If you have only one, then you are 99% atheist.

How much "intellectual endeavor" does it take it to figure out a religion isn't right for you? Not much. You just took the lazy route and decided to reject all things spiritual, wholesale.

That depends on the person and just how deeply you were indoctrinated.  Religious indoctrination is intended to bypass reason and intellect and cling to a person's emotions.  It can sometimes take tremendous effort to override emotions if they go deep enough.  This is why people who join cults will often reject their own family members to stay in the cult.

And for your information, I had to work for years to cross the line from questioning Christianity to outright rejecting it.  It took years more to come to the eventual conclusion that the very idea of god was invented.  All of this time reading and studying and even praying for understanding.  So yeah, that sounds really lazy, doesn't it.  I mean, why didn't I just do what everyone else was doing, go to church every Sunday and drink the koolaid.  Much more difficult.  

What I'm beginning to surmise is that you are drawn to the idea of rejecting whatever god you now believe in, but for the same reasons I've discussed you are reluctant to do so.  This is the reason you hang around an atheist forum making lame and incomprehensible arguments and generally making a fool out of yourself.  You're looking into this idea but not ready to admit it, perhaps even to yourself.

[Ahriman]

Do you also reject the Hindu gods?  What about the Chinese religions?  Japanese?  Wicca?  Jewish god?  Mazda?  Do you accept all those gods as real or do you have just one that you prefer?

I don't reject any of those gods. They could be real, and they are as good as real to those who believe in them. I just have my own idea of God that doesn't come (directly) from any other known god.

[Spongebob]

Do you also reject the Hindu gods?  What about the Chinese religions?  Japanese?  Wicca?  Jewish god?  Mazda?  Do you accept all those gods as real or do you have just one that you prefer?

I don't reject any of those gods. They could be real, and they are as good as real to those who believe in them.

But you said yourself that you do not believe in the Christian god.  Is that not just another way of saying you reject it as real or true?  Or did you just get tired of the Catholic rituals?

My point is this, you are trying to paint atheists as something odd and unusual and for some whacky reason lazy when you clearly have no real understanding of atheists.  But then you admit to rejecting a religion based on intellectual disagreement.  This is no different than what an atheist does.  We merely continue the endeavor to all gods.  This doesn't come on a whim but rather after serious consideration and learning.  Your assertion of laziness is based on ignorance.

 I just have my own idea of God that doesn't come (directly) from any other known god.

I understand this but you're not being honest here.  The Christian god is a jealous one.  If you put others before him, he doesn't like that and will send you to hell.  That is the classic Christian understanding of god.  Others are equally jealous.  So you are knowingly flouting that, which makes you more atheistic than you care to admit.  It also makes you "different" because what you are describing is akin to new age spirituality, which is certainly in the minority of religious modalities.  Again, 99% atheist.

[Ahriman]

Atheists aren't just rejectors of gods. They're also just not spiritual people. Yeah, I gave up on the Catholic rituals because I didn't want to perform them anymore. Calling me a "new age spiritualist" is not far off.

[Spongebob]

Atheists aren't just rejectors of gods. They're also just not spiritual people.

Yeah, I gave up on the Catholic rituals because I didn't want to perform them anymore. Calling me a "new age spiritualist" is not far off.

That depends how you define a spiritual person.  If you mean to say that a spiritual person is someone who believes in supernatural or otherworldly beings or the afterlife then that's mostly true.  There are some who define spiritual as being true and loving to oneself and others.  But of course you don't get to define that for everyone.  To be more clear and precise, it's more definitive to say that an atheist is someone who is not religious or does not believe in gods or the afterlife.  Anything more than that and you're being unnecessarily punitive.   And in future, I suggest you ask people why this is so and stop making foolish assumptions.

Yeah, I gave up on the Catholic rituals because I didn't want to perform them anymore. Calling me a "new age spiritualist" is not far off.

So correct me if I'm wrong.  Your reason for giving up on Catholicism was that you didn't like the rituals?  Now who's the lazy one?

[Ahriman]

I meant intellectual laziness, when talking about atheists.

[Spongebob]

I meant intellectual laziness, when talking about atheists.

And yet you couldn't be more wrong if you went out an gave it your best shot.