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[Serious] Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
#11
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
Quote:Not much I could do.  I'm a crippled up old guy....

Oh..

Wait...

I forgot.

I can calmly pull out my pistol and ventilate the bastard.
This implies you had the opportunity to do that first.

(October 16, 2021 at 3:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I dunno. That just seems crazy to me. I would have jumped on top of that mother fucker and started pummeling without even thinking about it. I can’t fathom doing anything but.
Unfortunately, a large portion of people aren't that brave or altruistic
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#12
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
(October 16, 2021 at 3:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I dunno. That just seems crazy to me. I would have jumped on top of that mother fucker and started pummeling without even thinking about it. I can’t fathom doing anything but.

And I'd bet that if you had, maybe, others would have followed you. But in large groups, regardless of crime or context, that doesn't always happen. Even in disasters, or car accidents. You will have situations where people don't do anything, and others who do something. I don't think it is as simple as what you think should happen. I 100% agree in the context of this story, it makes no sense. 

But I can also tell you I have seen countless stories of even first responders standing back because the situation was too dangerous. I think you cant assume that because people on that tram didn't do anything, that they didn't want to. "Arwethereyet" made a very good point that fear of harm to them jumping in may have delayed the response. But someone did report it in any case, and the suspect was arrested.

9/11/01 was heartbreaking. There is a recorded phone call from a lady trapped above the impact zone the 911 operator was responding to. That responder was helpless, she couldn't do a thing. But worse, my x-landlord who lived in VA at the time, was an x-fireman. I didn't know him at the time, but after I started renting from him, the subject of that day came up. He said to me, he could not understand why first responders were being sent up into the towers. He had every inclination at the time, watching it live, that the heat would melt the metal, and the buildings would collapse. 

It is one thing to say what you would or would not do as an observer. It is quite another to be in the actual moment. 

I love your intent, and I mean that seriously. But in the moment is far different than after the fact looking back.

I wouldn't judge everyone who didn't intervein. But I do understand your frustration.
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#13
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
(October 16, 2021 at 4:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(October 16, 2021 at 3:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: I dunno. That just seems crazy to me. I would have jumped on top of that mother fucker and started pummeling without even thinking about it. I can’t fathom doing anything but.

And I'd bet that if you had, maybe, others would have followed you. But in large groups, regardless of crime or context, that doesn't always happen. Even in disasters, or car accidents. You will have situations where people don't do anything, and others who do something. I don't think it is as simple as what you think should happen. I 100% agree in the context of this story, it makes no sense. 

But I can also tell you I have seen countless stories of even first responders standing back because the situation was too dangerous. I think you cant assume that because people on that tram didn't do anything, that they didn't want to. "Arwethereyet" made a very good point that fear of harm to them jumping in may have delayed the response. But someone did report it in any case, and the suspect was arrested.

9/11/01 was heartbreaking. There is a recorded phone call from a lady trapped above the impact zone the 911 operator was responding to. That responder was helpless, she couldn't do a thing. But worse, my x-landlord who lived in VA at the time, was an x-fireman. I didn't know him at the time, but after I started renting from him, the subject of that day came up. He said to me, he could not understand why first responders were being sent up into the towers. He had every inclination at the time, watching it live, that the heat would melt the metal, and the buildings would collapse. 

It is one thing to say what you would or would not do as an observer. It is quite another to be in the actual moment. 

I love your intent, and I mean that seriously. But in the moment is far different than after the fact looking back.

I wouldn't judge everyone who didn't intervein. But I do understand your frustration.

The only reason I feel I can say what I would have done in the situation with any degree of confidence is because I have. Ask my husband about all the trouble I’ve started out in public; he’ll tell you. 😁 I confronted and threatened to knock a guy out at a restaurant once because I overheard him verbally abusing his young step daughter. (Keep in mind, I’m 5’2’’) l did the same to some guys at a bar and nice who were groping a girl who was severely intoxicated. I’m not bragging, and I don’t think bravery has anything to do with it. It’s just my personality. I generally will not stand up for myself in most situations, but I react without thinking when I see vulnerable people being harmed. I get what you’re saying about personal safety, but this guy was mid-rape. He, himself, was vulnerable to the people around him. He literally had his pants down, come on, lol. Grab him by his dick. It’s just so hard to imagine not reacting like that.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#14
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
A Visegrip pliers clamped to his nutsack would certainly get his attention.....
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#15
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
(October 16, 2021 at 12:33 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: This is just so sad and infuriating. l hope law enforcement is able to charge these people who sat there and watched this poor woman suffer.

https://apple.news/A16vNlphOS5CVo9d8yErAnQ

I'm basing my reply on a film, so don't know if the law quoted is accurate.

The film is "The Accused" (1988), with Jody Foster(she won an academy award for best actress).  It's pretty confronting.  Excellent film in my opinion.


"The Accused is a 1988 American legal drama film directed by Jonathan Kaplan, written by Tom Topor and starring Jodie FosterKelly McGillisBernie CoulsonLeo RossiAnn HearnCarmen ArgenzianoSteve Antin and Tom O'Brien. In the film Sarah Tobias, a young waitress, is gang raped by three men at a local bar. She and deputy district attorney Kathryn Murphy set out to prosecute the rapists as well as the men who ."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Accused_(1988_film)
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#16
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
(October 16, 2021 at 5:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(October 16, 2021 at 4:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote: And I'd bet that if you had, maybe, others would have followed you. But in large groups, regardless of crime or context, that doesn't always happen. Even in disasters, or car accidents. You will have situations where people don't do anything, and others who do something. I don't think it is as simple as what you think should happen. I 100% agree in the context of this story, it makes no sense. 

But I can also tell you I have seen countless stories of even first responders standing back because the situation was too dangerous. I think you cant assume that because people on that tram didn't do anything, that they didn't want to. "Arwethereyet" made a very good point that fear of harm to them jumping in may have delayed the response. But someone did report it in any case, and the suspect was arrested.

9/11/01 was heartbreaking. There is a recorded phone call from a lady trapped above the impact zone the 911 operator was responding to. That responder was helpless, she couldn't do a thing. But worse, my x-landlord who lived in VA at the time, was an x-fireman. I didn't know him at the time, but after I started renting from him, the subject of that day came up. He said to me, he could not understand why first responders were being sent up into the towers. He had every inclination at the time, watching it live, that the heat would melt the metal, and the buildings would collapse. 

It is one thing to say what you would or would not do as an observer. It is quite another to be in the actual moment. 

I love your intent, and I mean that seriously. But in the moment is far different than after the fact looking back.

I wouldn't judge everyone who didn't intervein. But I do understand your frustration.

The only reason I feel I can say what I would have done in the situation with any degree of confidence is because I have. Ask my husband about all the trouble I’ve started out in public, he’ll tell you. 😁  I confronted and threatened to knock a guy out at a restaurant once because I overheard him verbally abusing his young step daughter. (Keep in mind, I’m 5’2’’) l did the same to some guys at a bar and nice who were groping a girl who was severely intoxicated. I’m not bragging, and I don’t think bravery has anything to do with it. It’s just my personality. I generally will not stand up for myself in most situations, but I react without thinking when I see vulnerable people being harmed. I get what you’re saying about personal safety, but this guy was mid-rape. He, himself, was vulnerable to the people around him. He literally had his pants down, come on, lol. Grab him by his dick. It’s just so hard to imagine not reacting like that.

That’s pretty much how I react - there’s not a lot of higher brain function involved. 

One incident I’ll always remember fondly: the girl I was seeing at the time and I were queued up at the cinema. The couple next to us were having an argument (which I find distasteful but none of my business), when the guy backhanded the girl across the face. Without thinking, I popped him, he sat down in a hurry, and his girl starts hitting ME. Peelers arrived, no charges filed.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#17
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
(October 16, 2021 at 5:31 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote:
(October 16, 2021 at 4:28 pm)Brian37 Wrote: And I'd bet that if you had, maybe, others would have followed you. But in large groups, regardless of crime or context, that doesn't always happen. Even in disasters, or car accidents. You will have situations where people don't do anything, and others who do something. I don't think it is as simple as what you think should happen. I 100% agree in the context of this story, it makes no sense. 

But I can also tell you I have seen countless stories of even first responders standing back because the situation was too dangerous. I think you cant assume that because people on that tram didn't do anything, that they didn't want to. "Arwethereyet" made a very good point that fear of harm to them jumping in may have delayed the response. But someone did report it in any case, and the suspect was arrested.

9/11/01 was heartbreaking. There is a recorded phone call from a lady trapped above the impact zone the 911 operator was responding to. That responder was helpless, she couldn't do a thing. But worse, my x-landlord who lived in VA at the time, was an x-fireman. I didn't know him at the time, but after I started renting from him, the subject of that day came up. He said to me, he could not understand why first responders were being sent up into the towers. He had every inclination at the time, watching it live, that the heat would melt the metal, and the buildings would collapse. 

It is one thing to say what you would or would not do as an observer. It is quite another to be in the actual moment. 

I love your intent, and I mean that seriously. But in the moment is far different than after the fact looking back.

I wouldn't judge everyone who didn't intervein. But I do understand your frustration.

The only reason I feel I can say what I would have done in the situation with any degree of confidence is because I have. Ask my husband about all the trouble I’ve started out in public, he’ll tell you. 😁  I confronted and threatened to knock a guy out at a restaurant once because I overheard him verbally abusing his young step daughter. (Keep in mind, I’m 5’2’’) l did the same to some guys at a bar and nice who were groping a girl who was severely intoxicated. I’m not bragging, and I don’t think bravery has anything to do with it. It’s just my personality. I generally will not stand up for myself in most situations, but I react without thinking when I see vulnerable people being harmed. I get what you’re saying about personal safety, but this guy was mid-rape. He, himself, was vulnerable to the people around him. He literally had his pants down, come on, lol. Grab him by his dick. It’s just so hard to imagine not reacting like that.

I wish it were that easy in every context. But the truth is, nobody no matter how brave they think they want to be in the moment, can honestly say in a given context what they really would do.

But let me give you some very due credit. I love your attitude. I wish I had had friends like you growing up, when the bullies picked on me. But at the same time, in reality, if you were stuck with the choice of protecting a stranger, vs protecting your husband, or family knowing you were outnumbered would your intent be that easy to defend?

Once at a Walmart years ago, before my mother died, she had mobility problems and needed a scooter to get around. But at the same time she got distracted moving the scooter and often bumped into things. One day she slammed into a young thugish white guy. Of course the guy wasn't hurt, but he got pissed, he wanted to start a fight with me, even though I wasn't using the scooter. Why? Because my mom didn't want to admit her mistake, and and she tried to initially argue it was no big deal. She wasn't wrong, but she also stupidly assumed that kids are kids and kids don't fight. I had to talk this guy down by apologizing to prevent him from hitting her, and at the same time arguing with my mom to let it go.

If I had not talked the guy down, and convinced my mom to let it go, he would have been in jail and my mom could have potentially been in the hospital. I'd rather come across as a wimp and live another day, than to make things worse.

I get that what those people observed was horrible, but at the same time, they also have family and friends they have to worry about. 

Point in both cases, is your intent isn't what always matches reality. In a perfect world that asshole would have understood. In a perfect world, my mother would have understood. In a perfect world I wanted to knock his teeth out for not understanding that my mom made a mistake and on top of that, she was not a man, which he thought she was, but regardless she was in a scooter. . But in reality my backing down and calming both my mother down and the asshole who didn't understand she was old, prevented violence.

In the case of this rape in the OP it is certainly bad enough it happened at all. But if nobody cared at all, the suspect would not have been arrested at all. Someone reported the crime and that still matters.
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#18
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
(October 16, 2021 at 5:49 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: A Visegrip pliers clamped to his nutsack would certainly get his attention.....

l like the way you think. 😁
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#19
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
Bystanders should all be charged with aiding and abetting.
Dying to live, living to die.
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#20
RE: Woman raped while onlookers did nothing
(October 16, 2021 at 6:38 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Bystanders should all be charged with aiding and abetting.

No, I don't agree. If you were not a part of a crime, and you fear for your life, or injury, you cannot make it a crime when you had no pre knowledge of the event.

I get the intent of wanting to help. I seriously get that intent. But it is crazy to convict someone whom was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time as being complicit in the moment.

The better argument in law, would be way after the fact, when you didn't report your observations. That would be a better case. But even then, the threats of the murderer can keep an innocent person silent. 

Quite sure, and would bet my life that is how John Gotti got away with all his crimes and violence as long as he did.
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