Renouncing Judaism

[Ferrocyanide]

It's not a race, it's a religion. No? #tenpointsforbrevity

But what's a race? You mean white (european), black (african), asian (chinese, etc), and I guess the native americans are asian as well.
Arabs and jews seem to be white, although the have particular facial features and skin color tends to be darker white to light brown.

Even in the case of armenians, italians, spanish, there are light brown people.

I have heard that from a biologist point of view, there are no races. I have heard on an Eye of Nye episode (with Bill Nye), that there is no way to tell from which race a person is from.
That doesn't make any sense. We can visually tell what race a person is. Even police forensic uses skull shapes to tell from which race a person is. Therefore, there should be some genetic information behind those features.

In Origin of Species, although it is an old book, they seem to call these variations.

Nah, judaism is not a race. It is a culture and religion.


In armenian, we call them movsessagan (the religion). The english version of the religion would be Mosesianism.
The culture is called hria.
I don't know why in english, you don't have separate words.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

It's not a race, it's a religion. No? #tenpointsforbrevity

But what's a race? You mean white (european), black (african), asian (chinese, etc), and I guess the native americans are asian as well.
Arabs and jews seem to be white, although the have particular facial features and skin color tends to be darker white to light brown.

Even in the case of armenians, italians, spanish, there are light brown people.

I have heard that from a biologist point of view, there are no races. I have heard on an Eye of Nye episode (with Bill Nye), that there is no way to tell from which race a person is from.
That doesn't make any sense. We can visually tell what race a person is. Even police forensic uses skull shapes to tell from which race a person is. Therefore, there should be some genetic information behind those features.

In Origin of Species, although it is an old book, they seem to call these variations.

Nah, judaism is not a race. It is a culture and religion.


In armenian, we call them movsessagan (the religion). The english version of the religion would be Mosesianism.
The culture is called hria.
I don't know why in english, you don't have separate words.

Bar people suffering from albinism, everyone is brown.

Boru

[The Grand Nudger]

That doesn't make any sense. We can visually tell what race a person is. Even police forensic uses skull shapes to tell from which race a person is. Therefore, there should be some genetic information behind those features.

Genetic information tells us about the local breeding pop.  You can't actually tell what race a person is by looking at them, less so if you want "race" to have anything to do with genetics.  A white man from north africa has more in common with a black man in north africa than a black man in north africa has with a black man in north america...and the white man in north america has more in common with the black man in north america than the white man in north africa.   This... even though we've tried to segregate the breeding populations for generations.  You might be amused at some of the things 23andme turned up in the us with regards to race, and perceptions of race.  Not just other peoples, but our own.  

That's the reality of genetics, regardless of what the police do - a poor indicator of race realism if ever there were one.   

In Origin of Species, although it is an old book, they seem to call these variations.

Yeh, unless they're reproductively isolated, then they'd be subspecies.  No group of humans beings is reproductively isolated from any other.  In fact, we're one of the most well mixed animals on the planet.  Groups of chimpanzees living together are more genetically diverse than human beings living on different continents from each other.  Wild, huh?

Nah, judaism is not a race. It is a culture and religion.


In armenian, we call them movsessagan (the religion). The english version of the religion would be Mosesianism.
The culture is called hria.
I don't know why in english, you don't have separate words.

We do. Tons.  Not that it matters, since we won't need to use any ethnic term to refer to the majority of jewish people we're likely to meet.  They're white.  

No, judaism is not a race or ethnicity - but once upon a time they believed as much and even insisted that they were the chosen race.  Yet another way all human beings are broadly similar.

[Ferrocyanide]

Bar people suffering from albinism, everyone is brown.

Boru

I guess so.
It would have to be that way since the system that produces melanin is important. Melanin is not a single compound.
I guess there is something that effects the production rate.
Also, it seems that red haired people have less production.

---

That doesn't make any sense. We can visually tell what race a person is. Even police forensic uses skull shapes to tell from which race a person is. Therefore, there should be some genetic information behind those features.

Genetic information tells us about the local breeding pop.  You can't actually tell what race a person is by looking at them, less so if you want "race" to have anything to do with genetics.  A white man from north africa has more in common with a black man in north africa than a black man in north africa has with a black man in north america...and the white man in north america has more in common with the black man in north america than the white man in north africa.   This... even though we've tried to segregate the breeding populations for generations.  You might be amused at some of the things 23andme turned up in the us with regards to race, and perceptions of race.  Not just other peoples, but our own.  

That's the reality of genetics, regardless of what the police do - a poor indicator of race realism if ever there were one.   

I get the impression that there is some politics at play here when I hear on various science shows that there is no such things as race, from a biological perspective.

I don't know. Maybe what they are doing is sequencing the entire human genome and comparing that and you get the results that you mentioned.
I think what they need to do is determine what counts as racial features. I'm guessing, this is skin color related, skull shape related, hair thickness, hair density on the head.
Next, they need to figure out the genes that only effects those features.

What's wrong with police forensics? Skull shape is used to determine whether a person is asian, caucasian, african(black).
For sure, there must be some genes that control those features.

My dentists told me that it is easier to drill the teeth of asian. They tend to be softer
African(black) is the hardest.
For caucasians, it is somewhere in the middle.
If that is true, again, there should be genes behind those features.

Yeh, unless they're reproductively isolated, then they'd be subspecies.  No group of humans beings is reproductively isolated from any other.  In fact, we're one of the most well mixed animals on the planet.  Groups of chimpanzees living together are more genetically diverse than human beings living on different continents from each other.  Wild, huh?

But intermarriage is something that is more recent.
For the past 5000 y, it was a rare thing, I think.
The king and queens would intermarry. In the case of ancient Egypt, apparently, they would not mix. They would marry brother and sister.

In the example that you gave, you mentioned the people of North America. The people who describe themselves as black aren't fully black. They all seem to be mixed (African(black) + caucasian).
There seems to be a wide spectrum. For example, Eddy Murphy looks quite a bit black, but probably has some white genes.
Oprah isn't as black as him. Will Smith isn't as black as him.

I think they describe themselves as black for political reasons (The whites do not like the slightest bit of blackness skin color).
Even some of the white people have a certain amount of black heritage and even native american heritage.

The reason for the chimpanzee thing might be that they didn't suffer from genetic contraction.
For humans, it is thought that the population crumbled at some point to under 10,000 members.

[The Grand Nudger]

I get the impression that there is some politics at play here when I hear on various science shows that there is no such things as race, from a biological perspective.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with the fact that you can't determine someone's race by the size of their skull, the color of their skin, or, in any consistent sense, their genetics.  These categories aren't just invented whole cloth, they're internally incoherent. It's complete nonsense, but we've tried to organize societies around it - as you say, politics.

I don't know. Maybe what they are doing is sequencing the entire human genome and comparing that and you get the results that you mentioned.
I think what they need to do is determine what counts as racial features. I'm guessing, this is skin color related, skull shape related, hair thickness, hair density on the head.
Next, they need to figure out the genes that only effects those features.

That is exactly how we ended up realizing that we were so hilariously wrong, yes.  

What's wrong with police forensics? Skull shape is used to determine whether a person is asian, caucasian, african(black).
For sure, there must be some genes that control those features.

Same thing that was wrong with phrenology - which is what the whole skull thing came out of.  

My dentists told me that it is easier to drill the teeth of asian. They tend to be softer
African(black) is the hardest.
For caucasians, it is somewhere in the middle.
If that is true, again, there should be genes behind those features.

Get a new dentist.  

But intermarriage is something that is more recent.
For the past 5000 y, it was a rare thing, I think.
The king and queens would intermarry. In the case of ancient Egypt, apparently, they would not mix. They would marry brother and sister.

Inbred royals are hardly the rule of human reproduction.  Still, yes - we have..as I mentioned, tried to isolate the breeding populations.  It never worked.  Go figure, people like to fuck.

In the example that you gave, you mentioned the people of North America. The people who describe themselves as black aren't fully black. They all seem to be mixed (African(black) + caucasian).
There seems to be a wide spectrum. For example, Eddy Murphy looks quite a bit black, but probably has some white genes.
Oprah isn't as black as him. Will Smith isn't as black as him.

So much for skin tone.

I think they describe themselves as black for political reasons (The whites do not like the slightest bit of blackness skin color).
Even some of the white people have a certain amount of black heritage and even native american heritage.

A weird take.  They could call themselves anything they liked and society would remind them of their blackness all the same. Similarly, our society compels us to hide what we've long seen as poor genetics..ironically enough, by claiming native american ancestry to cover african american ancestry - just as one example. Similarly, people who seem to fit nothing more than the one drop rule, easily presented (used to be passing) as white overwhelmingly identify as minorities - it's pretty clear that they have no say in that matter either.

The reason for the chimpanzee thing might be that they didn't suffer from genetic contraction.
For humans, it is thought that the population crumbled at some point to under 10,000 members.

-and then fucked their way across every continent but antarctica with reckless abandon.  One giant unplanned, uncontrolled, unrelenting breeding experiment.

Race realism by any name in any context fails by any metric.

[LinuxGal]

I get the impression that there is some politics at play here when I hear on various science shows that there is no such things as race, from a biological perspective.

Sure, but that has nothing to do with the fact that you can't determine someone's race by the size of their skull, the color of their skin, or, in any consistent sense, their genetics.  These categories aren't just invented whole cloth, they're internally incoherent.  It's complete nonsense, but we've tried to organize societies around it - as you say, politics.

[Fake Messiah]

Do you think that Jesus, being a white guy in Palestine, got skin cancer?

[Hi600]

I’m pretty sure that Judaism is specifically meant to refer to the religion. Anything ending in ism is supposed to mean a belief. (Or lack of belief, in the case of atheism.)

Jewishness is a culture. There’s a difference between Jewishness and Judaism.


I don’t think that very many atheist Jews would say they follow Judaism. They’d consider themselves cultural/ethic Jews, but not followers of Judaism.

[LinuxGal]

I’m pretty sure that Judaism is specifically meant to refer to the religion. Anything ending in ism is supposed to mean a belief. (Or lack of belief, in the case of atheism.)

Famous beliefs ending in ism:

Hellenism absenteeism alcoholism antagonism anthropomorphism aphorism archaism astigmatism atavism autism baptism botulism criticism cubism cynicism defeatism deism despotism determinism dilettantism dogmatism dualism dwarfism electromagnetism eroticism exhibitionism exorcism hooliganism journalism lesbianism magnetism malapropism mannerism materialism mechanism metabolism microorganism plagiarism prism rheumatism tourism vandalism witticism

[ColeDavis]

Well, I'm an atheist, but I would still consider myself a Jew. In fact, there is a long tradition of atheists within Judaism. I'm not saying that all would welcome it, but I recently visited the local liberal synagogue a couple of times, as an overt (but not troublemaking) atheist. People were friendly and decent, even if they did insist on ensuring that I knew which page we were on.

My reason for going was a sense of community.