The existence of God

[Jehanne]

Thanks for sparing us the multiverse speculations, altough this seems like a variation of it...the problem of why this particular universe exists and not some other remains nevertheless.

Well, yeah, because the concept of alternate dimensions is as imaginative as god's existence.

Of course, mathematical models exist that describe the multiverse.

[Silver]

Maths models = academic numerology

[Astreja]

Your argument is that fine tuning is an illusion? There is a real case to be made that there is fine tuning though. If the physical parameters were different we may not even have atoms, let alone life. Why is the universe like that?

Perhaps there are universes like that, but if they were incapable of sustaining life there would be no one there talking about fine tuning. We're essentially in a bubble of perception that is made possible because of the way this universe is structured. Kind of like rolling double boxcars on a pair of dice - the odds are 1 in 36, but it does happen.

[The Architect Of Fate]

..the problem of why this particular universe exists and not some other remains nevertheless.

It doesn't because you would have to demonstrate that some other universe could exist with other properties which you didn't.

Well said 

[Fake Messiah]

Maths models = academic numerology

Yeah, those are speculations upon speculations because saying that some constant is unlikely is a scientifically meaningless statement.

[snowtracks]

I'm a Christian looking to have a friendly conversation about the existence of God. I'd like to start with one of the Teleology arguments—that God exists based on how fine-tuned the universe is for life. For instance, physical constants, like the gravitational constant and constants of the strong nuclear force, must be within a narrow range to allow for things like atom formation, hydrogen bonding, galaxy formation, etc. This looks like design. The alternative is chance, which doesn't seem adequate. In other words, naturalism cannot account for the fine-tuning of the universe, while design can easily account for it. This is not a trivial problem, or one that can be ridiculed away, since many respected scientists have pointed out how remarkably (and inexplicably) fine-tuned the universe appears. Thanks for your polite responses.

Everyone believes in God's existence so it's futile to cozy up and tried to convince them of something they all ready know. What happened to them is this*
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*Romans 1:21    Because, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

[Silver]

Everyone believes in God's existence......

[Astreja]

Everyone believes in God's existence...

I do not. Kindly do not bear false witness against me and other nonbelievers.

[zebo-the-fat]

99.999...% of the universe will kill us in seconds, too hot, too cold, vacuum, toxic atmosphere, high gravity, radiation... I don't see much of this fine tuning!

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

There's a natural bias in the illusion of fine-tuning - only in a universe where the physical constants are within certain parameters, in a region of the universe where conditions are stable enough to permit evolution to the level of sentience, will such an observation occur.

Even if the universe was created by a god, though, it's a long, long slog to try to connect the dots to the god of Christianity.  Its behaviours in the Old Testament don't engender much confidence as to its competence to fine-tune anything, and its temperament doesn't suggest enough emotional stability to stick with it over the long haul.  Sorry.

Thanks for your reply. Fair enough that it doesn't connect to the Christian God. I just wanted to establish that fine tuning points to a designer of some sort. Your argument is that fine tuning is an illusion? There is a real case to be made that there is fine tuning though. If the physical parameters were different we may not even have atoms, let alone life. Why is the universe like that?

Fine tuning would point to a designer if it could be established that fine tuning exists. It can’t be, so it doesn’t.

Acting surprised at the existence of life in a universe that has the conditions for life is rather like walking into a clothing shop and being stunned at all the coats and trousers.

Boru