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A knockdown prophecy
#1
A knockdown prophecy
Many non-believers complain about prophecies in religious scripture being vague/imprecise/unfalsifiable. There is a lot to say about what constitutes a prophecy and what doesn't, and it's difficult to reach any kind of agreement. Islamic scripture has a clear advantage, however, as there are many hadiths that directly state facts and details that could've very, very easily turned out to be wrong.

Many people here probably read this authentic hadith before, but here it is again: 

Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon Him) took hold of my hands and said: Every one of the children of Adam has been created with three hundred and sixty joints; so he who declares the Glory of Allah, praises Allah, declares Allah to be One, Glorifies Allah, and seeks forgiveness from Allah, and removes stone, or thorn, or bone from people's path, and enjoins what is good and forbids from evil, to the number of those three hundred and sixty joints, will walk that day having saved himself from the Fire."

source : https://sunnah.com/muslim:1007a (Sahih Muslim is one of the most authoritative collections of genuine hadiths in Sunni Islam).

The information is precise and straightforward: there are 360 joints in the human body.

Let's read what modern science says :

"The human body possesses 360 joints and more than 650 muscles; "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6971295/

Now that wasn't very vague huh ? If anyone reading this wants to be honest with themselves, just ask : what would be your most precise guess about the number of joints, just by casually thinking about your different body parts ? 40 ? 50 ? 100 at most ?

I consider this hadith to be clinching evidence for the truth of Islam, there is simply no honest objection to it.
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#2
RE: A knockdown prophecy
Knuckle bones and vertebrae, well represented in sorcery and fortune telling of all kinds. Look, if we have 360 joints then clearly some djinn split the moon and obviously..if we have 360 joints, it means we have to do what the djinn says.
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#3
RE: A knockdown prophecy
Anyone who had seen and studied a skeleton could have come up with the number...if they knew how to count.

Try again.
 “I believe in annoyed at first sight.” – Steve Maraboli                                              
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#4
RE: A knockdown prophecy
Adam did not exist, and so, at best, it's batting .500.
And without delay Peter went quickly out of the synagogue (assembly) and went unto the house of Marcellus, where Simon lodged: and much people followed him...And Peter turned unto the people that followed him and said: Ye shall now see a great and marvellous wonder. And Peter seeing a great dog bound with a strong chain, went to him and loosed him, and when he was loosed the dog received a man's voice and said unto Peter: What dost thou bid me to do, thou servant of the unspeakable and living God? Peter said unto him: Go in and say unto Simon in the midst of his company: Peter saith unto thee, Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And immediately the dog ran and entered in, and rushed into the midst of them that were with Simon, and lifted up his forefeet and in a loud voice said: Thou Simon, Peter the servant of Christ who standeth at the door saith unto thee: Come forth abroad, for thy sake am I come to Rome, thou most wicked one and deceiver of simple souls. And when Simon heard it, and beheld the incredible sight, he lost the words wherewith he was deceiving them that stood by, and all of them were amazed. (The Acts of Peter, 9)
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#5
RE: A knockdown prophecy
Have you ever considered that someone.....sit down now, im gonna debunk Islam as you believe in it, right now!......has dissected a human body (or two) by the 7th century?*
I know, it sounds totally crazy, and its of course much more likely to be magic, god, splitting moons, stuff like that, right? But still, can you even imagine someone dissecting a human body by the 7th century?

But see, thats the difference between you and a clever apologist: A clever apologist would have claimed "Muslim medicine was so advanced back then, they already knew about 360 joints. Therefore Allah!". Still insanely stupid, but at least not as stupid as your argument.  Hilarious


Of course you will also fail to see that the fact of those 360 joints are not the problem, they are actually an irrelevancy. The problem is your underlying methodology to cross check your beliefs with reality. You have a belief and are looking for confirmation. Its guaranteed to lead you to false conclusions. Thank you for this very clear demontration of confirmation bias.

* google "Galen"  Consoling
Cetero censeo religionem delendam esse
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#6
RE: A knockdown prophecy
(September 6, 2022 at 6:10 pm)R00tKiT Wrote: Many non-believers complain about prophecies in religious scripture being vague/imprecise/unfalsifiable. There is a lot to say about what constitutes a prophecy and what doesn't, and it's difficult to reach any kind of agreement. Islamic scripture has a clear advantage, however, as there are many hadiths that directly state facts and details that could've very, very easily turned out to be wrong.

Many people here probably read this authentic hadith before, but here it is again: 

Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon Him) took hold of my hands and said: Every one of the children of Adam has been created with three hundred and sixty joints; so he who declares the Glory of Allah, praises Allah, declares Allah to be One, Glorifies Allah, and seeks forgiveness from Allah, and removes stone, or thorn, or bone from people's path, and enjoins what is good and forbids from evil, to the number of those three hundred and sixty joints, will walk that day having saved himself from the Fire."

source : https://sunnah.com/muslim:1007a (Sahih Muslim is one of the most authoritative collections of genuine hadiths in Sunni Islam).

The information is precise and straightforward: there are 360 joints in the human body.

Let's read what modern science says :

"The human body possesses 360 joints and more than 650 muscles; "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6971295/

Now that wasn't very vague huh ? If anyone reading this wants to be honest with themselves, just ask : what would be your most precise guess about the number of joints, just by casually thinking about your different body parts ? 40 ? 50 ? 100 at most ?

I consider this hadith to be clinching evidence for the truth of Islam, there is simply no honest objection to it.

Yeah, that actually an observation, not a prophecy. Kind of like if there was a hadith that declared, 'And the Messenger of God took hold of my hand and declared, "Behold! For Allah has created trees with the leafy bits upwards!!" '

I think I'm on pretty firm ground that a prophecy has to consist of more than just, you know, looking around at stuff.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#7
RE: A knockdown prophecy
Islam is not a religion to be mocked.
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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#8
RE: A knockdown prophecy
(September 7, 2022 at 4:10 am)Ahriman Wrote: Islam is not a religion to be mocked.

Don’t be so silly. ALL religions are to be mocked.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#9
RE: A knockdown prophecy
(September 7, 2022 at 4:37 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(September 7, 2022 at 4:10 am)Ahriman Wrote: Islam is not a religion to be mocked.

Don’t be so silly. ALL religions are to be mocked.

Boru
So if someone's family member died and they said something like, "She's in a better place now", you would then say, "Actually there's no such thing as the afterlife", are you willing to take it that far?
"Imagination, life is your creation"
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#10
RE: A knockdown prophecy
(September 6, 2022 at 6:10 pm)R00tKiT Wrote: "Many non-believers complain about prophecies in religious scripture being vague/imprecise/unfalsifiable...."

(1) So... a book was writen that 'Predicted' how many bones are in a/the human body?

This after MANY century's of people performing all sorts of medical (And not so medical) operations? (I.E. Roman, Greek, Egyptian just keep adding ancient empires to the list) and yet, some how, this one much later created book is some how novel?

Sorry. Not buying it.

Now, please point to a future novcel and testable prediction in such holy books adn we'll take it form there.

Cheers.

Not at work.
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