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[Serious] The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
#21
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
(September 24, 2022 at 12:42 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(September 24, 2022 at 12:17 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: There’s a difference between a general officer (Washington) resigning his commission and Trump not accepting election results. Your link wasn’t about Washington the president, but about Washington the general. 

As such, it has nothing to do with the topic of the peaceful transfer of power.

Boru

Most historians, I believe, would disagree and would instead view as significant Washington's voluntary resignation of his commission.  In not making for a clear power grab, Washington would later on, as President, establish the"only 2 terms as President" precedent, which was honored until the 20th-century.  In resigning his commission, Washington helped established the principle of the peaceful transfer of power.

I didn’t say it wasn’t significant, I said it isn’t the same as the peaceful transfer of power. It also did nothing at all to establish that American presidents would peacefully hand over to their successors (although Washington would later be responsible for that as well).

I suspect - though I cannot prove - that Washington’s motivations for both actions were a little less high-minded and a little more selfish (or, if you prefer ‘practical’) than you seem to think.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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#22
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
(September 24, 2022 at 1:50 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(September 24, 2022 at 12:42 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Most historians, I believe, would disagree and would instead view as significant Washington's voluntary resignation of his commission.  In not making for a clear power grab, Washington would later on, as President, establish the"only 2 terms as President" precedent, which was honored until the 20th-century.  In resigning his commission, Washington helped established the principle of the peaceful transfer of power.

I didn’t say it wasn’t significant, I said it isn’t the same as the peaceful transfer of power. It also did nothing at all to establish that American presidents would peacefully hand over to their successors (although Washington would later be responsible for that as well).

I suspect - though I cannot prove - that Washington’s motivations for both actions were a little less high-minded and a little more selfish (or, if you prefer ‘practical’) than you seem to think.

Boru

George was an old guy for the era....

He probably just wanted to sleep later in the morning.....

It' d be my motivation.....
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#23
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
(September 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(September 24, 2022 at 11:55 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: The Roman republic avoided civil war for its first 370 years, about 130 years longer than the United States had existed, much less the 4 score and five the US actually manage open civil war.

United has been turning into an empire as soon as the rival superpower fell leaving the US in hegemonic position.      It took Rome 80 year from gaining hegemonic power over Mediterranean world to her first civil war on the path to toppling traditional Republican distributed power structure, and 170 years before the transition to monarchical empire is complete.   United States is also bidding fair to both it in less.

Time will tell, I suppose.  Here is a list of the Roman civil wars & revolts:

Wikipedia -- List of Roman civil wars and revolts

In terms of per capita loss of life, I think that we have done better.  But, again, time will tell.

the 3rd century BC roman civil wars listed there these grossly stretch the definition of Civil War.   applying the same definition to American history would see suppression of native americans as one long civil war, and suppressing philippine rebels at the turn of 20th century as another civil war,  fighting the vietcong and insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan arguable would also qualify as yet more civil wars. 

again, Americans are commonly indoctrinated to turn vastly more critical eyes on everyone else than they would allow to be seen with themselves in ordee to sustain a delusion of American exceptionalism.
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#24
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
(September 24, 2022 at 2:18 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:
(September 24, 2022 at 12:55 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Time will tell, I suppose.  Here is a list of the Roman civil wars & revolts:

Wikipedia -- List of Roman civil wars and revolts

In terms of per capita loss of life, I think that we have done better.  But, again, time will tell.

the 3rd century BC roman civil wars listed there these grossly stretch the definition of Civil War.   applying the same definition to American history would see suppression of native americans as one long civil war, and suppressing philippine rebels at the turn of 20th century as another civil war,  fighting the vietcong and insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan arguable would also qualify as yet more civil wars. 

again, Americans are commonly indoctrinated to turn vastly more critical eyes on everyone else than they would allow to be seen with themselves in ordee to sustain a delusion of American exceptionalism.

You think other nations don't teach their citizens to be critical of other nations, including the US?
If you get to thinking you’re a person of some influence, try ordering somebody else’s dog around.
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#25
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
(September 24, 2022 at 2:37 pm)Fireball Wrote:
(September 24, 2022 at 2:18 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: the 3rd century BC roman civil wars listed there these grossly stretch the definition of Civil War.   applying the same definition to American history would see suppression of native americans as one long civil war, and suppressing philippine rebels at the turn of 20th century as another civil war,  fighting the vietcong and insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan arguable would also qualify as yet more civil wars. 

again, Americans are commonly indoctrinated to turn vastly more critical eyes on everyone else than they would allow to be seen with themselves in ordee to sustain a delusion of American exceptionalism.

You think other nations don't teach their citizens to be critical of other nations, including the US?

other nations are not global hegemons, the effects of their provincial egoism does not harm the whole world.
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#26
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
Neither is the US  Dodgy
“The sun from far gives life. But get close to it and it burns anything down to ashes”

[Image: flag-ukraine_1f1fa-1f1e6.png]  Heart [Image: canada-google.png]        

 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
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#27
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
(September 24, 2022 at 11:55 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: The Roman republic avoided civil war for its first 370 years, about 130 years longer than the United States had existed, much less the 4 score and five the US actually manage open civil war.

The red states make a lot of noise about secession, this time they can leave and we won't go hankering after 'em like Lincoln did.  They're net recipients of federal largess.  Blue states are net accounts payable.   See how long that shit lasts.
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#28
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
It could last quite some time. Many of those states were intentionally kept -in- that state in order to exploit their labor and resources. Coal country being a great example. Thus, to some minds, making the ground fertile (or even more fertile) for exactly what we see today.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#29
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
(November 6, 2022 at 12:03 pm)LinuxGal Wrote:
(September 24, 2022 at 11:55 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: The Roman republic avoided civil war for its first 370 years, about 130 years longer than the United States had existed, much less the 4 score and five the US actually manage open civil war.

The red states make a lot of noise about secession, this time they can leave and we won't go hankering after 'em like Lincoln did.  They're net recipients of federal largess.  Blue states are net accounts payable.   See how long that shit lasts.

If the Red States wish to secede, let them do so! I like the quote from James Petigru that, "South Carolina is too small for a republic, but too large for an insane asylum.”

Good Riddance, freaks!
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#30
RE: The Rehabilitation of President Richard M. Nixon
(November 6, 2022 at 6:02 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(November 6, 2022 at 12:03 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: The red states make a lot of noise about secession, this time they can leave and we won't go hankering after 'em like Lincoln did.  They're net recipients of federal largess.  Blue states are net accounts payable.   See how long that shit lasts.

If the Red States wish to secede, let them do so!  I like the quote from James Petigru that, "South Carolina is too small for a republic, but too large for an insane asylum.”

Good Riddance, freaks!

Which bits would get to keep the name?

[Image: 61G7utZdfeL.jpg]

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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