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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 3:45 am
I'd expect uncomplicated selfishness.
As for the other thing, acting against your own beliefs and interests isn't nihilism, it's just weird...and human.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 3:51 am
Selfishness is a fair expectation. I would describe myself as highly selfish and hedonistic. I do that which I think will best lead me to experiencing pleasurable sensations and will best lead me away from the experience of negative sensations. That's about all that motivates (consciously) my actions.
So, if it's universal to act contrary to belief systems you either can't say someone isn't a nihilist for acting contrary to their beliefs, or you have to say to that no one is really an anything. Given you said that no one was a nihilist here, iirc, it seems you must say the same about everyone (there are no Christians, Buddhists, evolutionists, materialists, etc). Or you can just choose to be inconsistent.
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 4:04 am
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2023 at 4:12 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I agree that its fair to expect selfishness. The fact that people exceed the bound of selfishness is an experiential problem for nihilism. Not only do people think that things mean things....we think that specific things mean a whole hell of alot, and often in collusion or with respect to large numbers of people that mean a whole lot to us.
I bet you do.
The rest requires a nihilist premise that I can't claim to share. OFC there are buddhists, and christians, and...well...on and on. Not as many as claim those things, but still..yeah?
In the end, if I'm inconsistent, I'm fine with that too. Also expected, at some point. I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I'm probably wrong about alot of shit but what does that have to do with nihilism, a thing wholly absent from my life...
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 4:17 am
I've never gone beyond the bounds of selfishness. I wouldn't even know what that looks like, since everything seems to boil down to self-interest. Can you give me an example of where a moral non-realist might act unselfishly?
So, you are aware that you are inconsistent yet persist in that inconsistency. It seems that if a nihilist acts contrary to nihilism you say they are not a real nihilist, but if a Christian acts contrary to Christianity they are still a Christian as inconsistency is a human universal. Why hold nihilism to a higher standard than all other viewpoints? Is there an underlying reason you do this?
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 4:21 am
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2023 at 4:24 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Have you ever had to? Or, to rephrase, was there ever a moment where you could, and it would mean alot...but you didn't?
I have to say, it would be a treat to have a frank discussion with someone who brought so much derision and bad rep on themselves.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 4:22 am
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2023 at 4:23 am by FrustratedFool.)
Had to? You mean had to act unselfishly?
I can't imagine such a scenario. Can you give me an example where the motivation wasn't, at bottom, self-interest?
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 4:25 am
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2023 at 4:32 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Me? No. I can't think of any situation that would be of interest to anyone else that wouldn't be of interest to me. I tend to think that's because we all, as human beings, have greatly/broadly(?) similar interests.
-why would it matter, though? Nihilism isn't the position that people are selfish. Nihilism contends that even selfishness is meaningless.
(one of my favorite aspects, btw, because it suggests...at least to me, that nihilism is both hilariously wrong and, at least in that, immensely useful - If I could find a genuinely nihilist labor force, I'd be fucking rich. )
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 4:29 am
Right. So we shouldn't expect anyone to not be selfish, including moral non-realists. It doesn't make an obvious clear behavioural difference.
I do act differently as a nihilist than when I was a moral realist, but not in some enormous obvious way deducible to those outside. And, as we've found through our conversation, it would be unreasonable to expect such a thing.
So, again, I ask, why do you seem to treat nihilism differently to other POV? Is there an underlying disdain you have for it?
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 4:37 am
I hold nihilism to it's own standard. Is that a problem?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Any Nihilists here?
August 21, 2023 at 4:43 am
Well, it seems to me that there's two problems here:
1) You have a particular definition of nihilism which I, and some other nihilists, do not have.
2) You hold nihilism (your definition) to its own standard, but don't hold any other view to its own standard.
It just seems a rather odd thing to be so invested in to the point of willingly choosing to be inconsistent without some underlying emotional impetus.
But all that aside, are there any of the statements I hold to (whether you classify them as nihilism or not, or whether you think they are borne out in my life or not) which you disagree with?
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