Oh, Thank you, Your Ass-Holiness....

[HeyItsZeus]

Why is this douche bag back?

[Skipper]

Read the rest of that blog where he says "I am in no position to make light of the horrific experiences of their altar-boy victims." and finishes with "Priestly groping of child bodies is disgusting. But it may be less harmful in the long run than priestly subversion of child minds." and you will actually understand the context of his comments, always a plus when you are trying to make a point

In just the two sentences I've quoted he clearly says abuse of children by the church is a terrible thing, he describes it as both "horrific" and "disgusting" not exactly compatible with the view of it being "embarrassing but otherwise harmless" is it? But obviously he never said that, you just wish he did.

[Cinjin]

I disagree; I think his point is that he would defend a pedophile even if he were a victim because molestation is an embarrassing but harmless experience. But again, we all know very well that you guys would not go through such lengths to defend any priest if they had made remarks half this ambiguous or unclear. Be honest now.

This is a first for me. I actually believe the christian has a point on this one. He's right. I would rip the Pope a verbal new-one for saying the exact same words as Dawkins is quoted as saying. And honestly, fairly, his remarks are a bit ambiguous and subject to interpretation.

As much as I HATE telling a christian "you have a point" ... lets face it, the man does have a point, even if I disagree with his overall perspective. A pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile, and I cannot count the multitude of times that I have ranted against the catholic church for overlooking and making-lite of child molestation .... and that is exactly what Dawkins does appear to be doing whether he is referring to just his own molestation or not.

That being said ... I don't really give a shit about Dawkins or the Church. Both are useless to me.

[Minimalist]

How are my views on the age of the Earth in anyway relevant to this discussion?

I decided that you were a flaming idiot several months ago. I really doubt that there will be any change in that depending on whatever issue you are blathering about.

You are a fucking fool.

Some things will not change.

[Skipper]

A pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile, and I cannot count the multitude of times that I have ranted against the catholic church for overlooking and making-lite of child molestation .... and that is exactly what Dawkins does appear to be doing whether he is referring to just his own molestation or not.

That blog clearly says he was "fondled" (a rather mild form of child abuse). Lets stop even debating whether or not he is talking about himself and his own experience at the hands of a nonce of a teacher or child abuse in general in the paragraph from the god delusion that Waldorf quoted. In both the blog and the book he calls it embarrassing. He is talking about his own experience. If you or anyone can't see that, then I give up .

Should he really lie about how it affected him or be honest and say that overall it wasn't a serious incident and that he felt it was more embarrassing than harmful? He clearly dosen't condone or belittle paedophilia as his stance against what is done by priests in the name of the catholic church, his comments in the blog I posted and lack of any other piece of writing, video or audio that suggest he does, proves.

All he says is, he personally was fondled, it personally didn't affect him in the long run and he personally thought it was more embarrassing than harmful.

[Tiberius]

A pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile, and I cannot count the multitude of times that I have ranted against the catholic church for overlooking and making-lite of child molestation

Pedophile =/= Child Molester

Pedophile = Person who is sexually attracted to children.

Child Molester = Person who molests children.

Pedophiles can be Child Molesters, and in a lot of cases they are, but it is not a rule that they are.

[reverendjeremiah]

He is speaking about his own experiences. He says he attended three boarding schools who all employed "pedophilic" teachers, and that he was a victim of one of them, yet the experience was more embarrassing than harmful, and he would come to their defense if they were hounded like child murderers.

How you can take what he wrote about his own experiences and think it applies to his general thinking about molestation is quite beyond me.

Thankyou Adrian. I was trying to point that out to him, but apparently he decided to give me hell for being a late poster. I take back all the bad things I wrote about you on the shit house walls.

[Cinjin]

Hmm, interesting.

Somehow the topic of this discussion has changed to become: "What is pedophilia and is Dawkins supporting pedophilia?

The answer to both of those questions for me is "I don't give a shit". Dawkins has the right to state whatever he likes about how little or how much he was molested as a child. I made no remark to whether or not this was a good idea on his part. I simply stated, that Statler did indeed have a singular good point .... and that was: I would indeed rip the catholic church a new-one, as I have many times, for writing the exact same statement (in the exact same context) as Mr. Dawkins did.

I am not condemning Dawkins or anyone else. I'm simply admitting that Statler did have a point and that I would be a liar if I said that I would not react with disdain if I read the exact same words out of the catholic church's latest news flyer. (and further more, I believe you would too)

[Faith No More]

However even if Dawkins is only speaking of his own experience, which I do not believe is the case, he would still be completely inconsistent in his other actions. He has said on numerous occasions that he is a determinist and punishing criminals for their actions would be not unlike punishing a car for breaking down or a computer for not behaving properly. Even after saying this though he demands for the arrest and punishment of the Pope for "crimes against humanity". The guy is a complete joke.

I haven't read any of Dawkins material and could care less what he was to say outside of science but here is the quote

...I should have felt obliged to come to their defense, even as the victim of one of them (an embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience).

If you can't understand that he is clearly referring to his own experience the you are the joke.

[Tiberius]

I think it's quite clear he is talking about molestation in general, and he would defend a molestor against the "mobs" even if he were a vicemt of one because it is an embarassing but otherwise harmless experience. How you can even attempt to defend Dawkins on this one is beyond me, I have heard of fan-boyism but c'mon.

Believe me, I'm as far from a fan-boy of Dawkins as you can possibly get. The God Delusion did nothing for me; it is a book full of pathetic arguments written by a biologist with no formal training in philosophy.

However, one thing Dawkins is not is a defender of child molestation; I think that is quite obvious from his actions and speeches against it in public. He has admitted on multiple occasions to being molested as a child (links are in this thread), so if you can't see that he was clearly referring to himself, you need to go and relearn English grammar.

The subject of the sentence in which Dawkins makes his remark is "I" (in other words, Dawkins himself). He is calling himself the victim, and his experience more embarrassing than harmful (something which he repeats in his blog post).

I am not condemning Dawkins or anyone else. I'm simply admitting that Statler did have a point and that I would be a liar if I said that I would not react with disdain if I read the exact same words out of the catholic church's latest news flyer. (and further more, I believe you would too)

He didn't have a point as far as I see it. If I read the exact same words in a catholic church news flyer, I'd still read them in the proper context: as an admission of a personal event; nothing more. There are plenty of pedophile priests in the Catholic Church, but there are plenty more priests who are disgusted by child abuse (and I bet a few of them were molested like Dawkins as well).