Oh, Thank you, Your Ass-Holiness....

[Minimalist]

I suppose you think this makes it all better now?


http://apnews.excite.com/article/2011041...7F800.html

The Vatican has sanctioned a Belgian bishop who resigned last year after admitting he had sexually abused his nephew, saying he can no longer act as a priest in public and may risk further church sanctions.

That will take care of everything all right!

[Statler Waldorf]

---

I suppose you think this makes it all better now?


http://apnews.excite.com/article/2011041...7F800.html

The Vatican has sanctioned a Belgian bishop who resigned last year after admitting he had sexually abused his nephew, saying he can no longer act as a priest in public and may risk further church sanctions.

That will take care of everything all right!

---

Well according to Richard Dawkins in the God Delusion, child molestation is nothing more than an "embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience". So maybe the Priest should be allowed to work and not be sanctioned at all, according to DickDawk's warped views on morality of course.

[OnlyNatural]

Well according to Richard Dawkins in the God Delusion, child molestation is nothing more than an "embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience". So maybe the Priest should be allowed to work and not be sanctioned at all, according to DickDawk's warped views on morality of course.

I have a copy of The God Delusion right in front of me, kindly tell me the page number of this ridiculous statement, or admit that you are quote-mining and/or making shit up.

[Statler Waldorf]

---

Well according to Richard Dawkins in the God Delusion, child molestation is nothing more than an "embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience". So maybe the Priest should be allowed to work and not be sanctioned at all, according to DickDawk's warped views on morality of course.

I have a copy of The God Delusion right in front of me, kindly tell me the page number of this ridiculous statement, or admit that you are quote-mining and/or making shit up.

---

Not only will I kindly give you the page number, I will also kindly give you the quote, and also kindly put it in bold for you. Somehow I have the feeling you will not kindly admit that I was right though...just a hunch. You'll find a way to justify DickDawk's views on the subject since he has become a Christ figure to the Atheistic religion.

On page 355 (off of google books) of "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins

"Nevertheless, it is clearly unjust to visit upon all pedophiles a vengeance appropriate to the tiny minority who are also murderers. All three of the boarding schools I attended employed teachers whose affection for small boys overstepped the bounds of propriety. That was indeed reprehensible. Nevertheless if, fifty years on, they had been hounded by vigilantes or lawyers as no better than child murderers, I should have felt obliged to come to their defense, even as the victim of one of them (an embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience)."

[OnlyNatural]

Not only will I kindly give you the page number, I will also kindly give you the quote, and also kindly put it in bold for you. Somehow I have the feeling you will not kindly admit that I was right though...just a hunch. You'll find a way to justify DickDawk's views on the subject since he has become a Christ figure to the Atheistic religion.

Chapter 9, on page 316 of "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins

"Nevertheless, it is clearly unjust to visit upon all pedophiles a vengeance appropriate to the tiny minority who are also murderers. All three of the boarding schools I attended employed teachers whose affection for small boys overstepped the bounds of propriety. That was indeed reprehensible. Nevertheless if, fifty years on, they had been hounded by vigilantes or lawyers as no better than child murderers, I should have felt obliged to come to their defense, even as the victim of one of them (an embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience)."

Alright, I found it on p. 355 in my copy. You're right in the sense that this quote exists. What Dawkins seems to be saying is that child murder, including sexually-motivated murder, is a worse crime than molestation. I assume most people would agree with that. Child molesters are despicable people, but compared to the horrific rape and murder of an 8-year old girl that he describes just prior to this quote, I'd say the rapist-murderer is at least slightly more despicable.

I'm surprised to hear Dawkins describe molestation as 'embarrassing but otherwise harmless.' Maybe if the inappropriate contact is extremely mild... There's a difference between having a priest slap your ass briefly on one occasion, and being brutally raped on an ongoing basis. But if you want to consider molestation in general, I would disagree with Dawkins on that point. I would never consider sexual abuse to be 'harmless.' The physical harm is temporary, but the psychological harm can last a lifetime and can be devastating. Some people never get over it.

I don't understand why you, like a lot of religious people, assume atheists see Dawkins as a Christ figure. Obviously he's just a human being. He has some excellent things to say on a lot of subjects, but that doesn't mean I would swallow The God Delusion whole as if it were a bible or something. As an atheist, I question things, and if I don't agree with something, I don't find some delusional way to justify it just because the person who said it is also an atheist.

[Minimalist]

Don't waste your time trying to explain "context" to an idiot who thinks the earth is 6,000 years old.

[reverendjeremiah]

Not only will I kindly give you the page number, I will also kindly give you the quote, and also kindly put it in bold for you.

Wel That IS very kind of you.

Somehow I have the feeling you will not kindly admit that I was right though...just a hunch. You'll find a way to justify DickDawk's views on the subject since he has become a Christ figure to the Atheistic religion.

Your requirements for a "christ figure" must be pretty low or generic for you to consider someone like Dawkins to be equal to your Christ. "Atheistic Religion"?!?! LMFAO..WUT?! Perhaps we should later discuss my bald hair color? "DickDawk"? I like playing with words too. I call a Vagina a "Va Jay Jay" and I call Jesus "Jebus".

On page 355 (off of google books) of "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins

*Pulls out copy of "DickDawk's God Derusion" and blows dust off of it*
Damn, I remember not caring much for this book. It means something to Waldorf, so I guess I will go along

"Nevertheless, it is clearly unjust to visit upon all pedophiles a vengeance appropriate to the tiny minority who are also murderers. All three of the boarding schools I attended employed teachers whose affection for small boys overstepped the bounds of propriety. That was indeed reprehensible. Nevertheless if, fifty years on, they had been hounded by vigilantes or lawyers as no better than child murderers, I should have felt obliged to come to their defense, even as the victim of one of them (an embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience)."

I dont see it in my copy of my book. Damn, I guess I have to go over to google books. I prefer to have the real thing in my hand, and not some cut and paste crap from the net.

Quick question..did you read the book or did you get this cut and paste from some web site?

Ah, here it is in full context

---

Priestly abuse of children is nowadays taken to mean sexual abuse, and I feel obliged, at the outset, to get the whole matter of sexual abuse in proportion and out of the way. Others have noted that we live in a time of hysteria about pedophilia, a mob psychology that calls to mind the Salem witch hunts of 1692. In July 2000 the News of the World, widely acclaimed in the face of stiff competition as Britain's most disgusting newspaper, organized a 'name-and shame' campaign, barely stopping short of inciting vigilantes to take direct violent action against pedophiles. The house of a hospital pediatrician was attacked by zealots unacquainted with the difference between a pediatrician and pedophile. The mob hysteria over pedophiles has reached epidemic proportions and driven parents to panic. Today's Just Williams, today's Huck Finns, today's Swallows and Amazons are deprived of the freedom to roam that was one of the delights of childhood in earlier times (when the actual, as opposed to perceived, risks of molestation was probably no less).

In fairness to the News of the World, at the time of its campaign passions had been aroused by a truly horrifying murder, sexually motivated, of an eight-year-old girl kidnapped in Sussex. Nevertheless, it is clearly unjust to visit upon all pedophiles a vengeance appropriate to the tiny minority who are also murders. All three of the boarding schools I attended employed teachers whose affection for small boys overstepped the bounds of propriety. That was indeed reprehensible. Nevertheless, if fifty years on, they had been hounded by vigilantes or lawyers as no better than child murderers, I should have felt obliged to come to their defense, even as the victim of one of them (an embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience).

The Roman Catholic Church has borne a heavy share of such retrospective opprobrium. For all sorts of reasons I dislike the Roman Catholic Church . But I dislike unfairness even more, and I can't help wondering whether this one institution has been unfairly demonized over the issue, especially in Ireland and America. I suppose some additional public resentment flows from the hypocrisy of priests whose professional life is largely devoted to arousing guilt about 'sin'. There there is the abuse of trust by a figure in authority, whom the child has been trained from the cradle to revere. Such additional resentments should make us all the more careful not to rush to judgement. We should be aware of the remarkable power of the mind to concoct false memories, especially when abetted by unscrupulous therapists and mercenary lawyers. The psychologist Elizabeth Loftus has shown great courage, in the face of spiteful vested interests, in demonstrating how easy it is for people to concoct memories that are entirely false but which seem, to the victim, every bit as real as true memories. This is so counter intuitive that juries are easily swayed by sincere but false testimony from witnesses.

---

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle dipped in pig shit! He's right!! It is in there! Well, I guess that settles it Min.. you have gone against our Lord and Savior DickDawk's words. You must repent or lose your place in atheist nothingness and be sent to torment in Christian Heaven. May nothing have mercy on your non-existant soul.

The context of DickDawk's line of thinking is that he wants people to chill the fuck out and stop grabbing their pitch forks. He also points out that it is easy for people to concoct memories. He also points out that child murderers are worse than child molestors, and that the people going after these priests act as if they were murderers with the zeal they hunt them down with. Honestly Waldorf, I am not sure what you are trying to say. Could you be a bit more specific?

Well according to Richard Dawkins in the God Delusion, child molestation is nothing more than an "embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience". So maybe the Priest should be allowed to work and not be sanctioned at all, according to DickDawk's warped views on morality of course.

Okay, now you are more specific..umm...What you say, and what you posted seem to agree, but when I read the entire page in context it seems like you just cherry picked.

Do you care to clarify?

[Rwandrall]

Anyways, since the main issue has been the Church's obstruction of justice, cover-ups and lies, i don't see how this is of any relevance...

[reverendjeremiah]

I want justice for those wronged by the church. Until then all of their "blah blah" is drowned out by the cries of the abused children.

[Statler Waldorf]

---

Not only will I kindly give you the page number, I will also kindly give you the quote, and also kindly put it in bold for you. Somehow I have the feeling you will not kindly admit that I was right though...just a hunch. You'll find a way to justify DickDawk's views on the subject since he has become a Christ figure to the Atheistic religion.

Chapter 9, on page 316 of "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins

"Nevertheless, it is clearly unjust to visit upon all pedophiles a vengeance appropriate to the tiny minority who are also murderers. All three of the boarding schools I attended employed teachers whose affection for small boys overstepped the bounds of propriety. That was indeed reprehensible. Nevertheless if, fifty years on, they had been hounded by vigilantes or lawyers as no better than child murderers, I should have felt obliged to come to their defense, even as the victim of one of them (an embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience)."

Alright, I found it on p. 355 in my copy. You're right in the sense that this quote exists. What Dawkins seems to be saying is that child murder, including sexually-motivated murder, is a worse crime than molestation. I assume most people would agree with that. Child molesters are despicable people, but compared to the horrific rape and murder of an 8-year old girl that he describes just prior to this quote, I'd say the rapist-murderer is at least slightly more despicable.

I'm surprised to hear Dawkins describe molestation as 'embarrassing but otherwise harmless.' Maybe if the inappropriate contact is extremely mild... There's a difference between having a priest slap your ass briefly on one occasion, and being brutally raped on an ongoing basis. But if you want to consider molestation in general, I would disagree with Dawkins on that point. I would never consider sexual abuse to be 'harmless.' The physical harm is temporary, but the psychological harm can last a lifetime and can be devastating. Some people never get over it.

I don't understand why you, like a lot of religious people, assume atheists see Dawkins as a Christ figure. Obviously he's just a human being. He has some excellent things to say on a lot of subjects, but that doesn't mean I would swallow The God Delusion whole as if it were a bible or something. As an atheist, I question things, and if I don't agree with something, I don't find some delusional way to justify it just because the person who said it is also an atheist.

---

Yeah I corrected the page number above. I don't think anyone disputes the fact that murder is a more serious crime than molestation (even though both are evil in my eyes). I think the problem with Dawkin's view is the "embarrassing but otherwise harmless" approach to molestation. I have heard some make the case that he is not talking about molestation, but I feel he actually is because he is speaking of pedophiles and their victims. If he was not indeed talking about molestation then he just worded the passage very poorly and should clarify. I think the biggest problem for him is how inconsistent it makes him look. Here he is trying to go after the Pope for "crimes against humanity", but according to his book all the pope was doing was covering up "embarrassing but otherwise harmless" activities. So which is it?

I was not saying that you necessarily view Dawkins as a Christ figure- especially not that you at least admit that the quote seems way off base. However, I have had discussions with many atheists who engage in mental gymnastics to protect Dawkin’s as somewhat of a hero. Though I think we both know that if the pope had said something about molestation being only an "embarrassing but otherwise harmless experience" atheists around the globe would be outraged (and for good reason I think). I just

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Don't waste your time trying to explain "context" to an idiot who thinks the earth is 6,000 years old.

How are my views on the age of the Earth in anyway relevant to this discussion? Nice non-sequitur. I am not surprised you’d go to bat for Dawkin’s on this, even though we all know you wouldn’t defend the Pope if he had said the very same thing.