Inceldom

[FrustratedFool]

Thank you.

[arewethereyet]

I think this is reaching troll level bullshit.

Which lies do you think I've told so far?

I think you are obsessed with the concept of ugly people....who are apparently being told time and again that they are ugly.  And because they are ugly (whatever that means) they can't get laid so it's not their fault when they lose their minds and shoot up a school.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....all levels up to and including beauty depend upon the person making the judgement call on a person's looks.

[FrustratedFool]

It's odd to me that you interpret my posts that way.

I don't believe I'm obsessed with anything, including this issue.

I believe some people are considered ugly/unattarctive by most others in their society, and that some of these people have been repeatedly told that. I think this just a fact.

I believe being unattractive/ugly makes dating much harder. Some may still 'get laid', and virtually all could have sex with a sex workers, but their dating life will be much more problematic, slow, sparse, awkward etc than their more attractive peers. Some will be so held back by their unattractiveness that they will not plausibly be able to have a relationship unless their looks change.

I believe that lack of friendship and sexual validation and romantic relationships, especially when combined with ostracisation and bullying, lead to mental health problems for many. And increases the chance of them being radicalised, possibly even leading to violence.

I believe shooting up schools a bad thing that causes much suffering. I think it would be better for all if that didn't happen. I think that if we as a society were better able to prevent or treat the mental health issues that led some to do such atrocious aacts we'd all be better off. I think part of the prevention of this is to treat the issue of loneliness and trauma caused by ugliness/ unattractiveness. I can't see really any solution to this except technological innovation.

I believe beauty is subjective. But I also believe that evolution and social conditioning make it more of a consensus than many suppose. Some people will be held to be attractive to a majority in their culture, and some will be held to be ugly by a majority.

But what lies do you think I've told so far?

[arewethereyet]

I didn't say you lied.  I said this is bullshit.  I am curious about the number of times 'ugly' people are told they are ugly.  Many of us were brought up not to make hurtful remarks to people.  You seem to believe the world is filled with less than attractive people who are told on the daily that they are ugly.

I don't buy that.  But you do you.  Simply -  

Incels are incels because they aren't cover model material.  That's bullshit.

[FrustratedFool]

Well, I experienced it myself to some degree when younger. And I've spoken to many people, both in real life and online, who have had similar experiences of being told they're uuglyand I see no reason to think they're lying. Maybe it seems unlikely to someone who hasn't experienced that. Dunno. Maybe I'm too credulous.

How many times are ugly people told they're ugly? Hard to say. I guess it varies enormously. If we remove the indirect messaging of dating apps, dating rejections, media and so on, and just count specific times they're told they're ugly I guess it must be hundreds of times depending upon how old they are.

I'm not sure where I've argued that incels are incels because they're not models. That isn't my view, and I think I've been fairly clear and consisitent with my views in this thread and the black pill dating one. So I think you may be being somewhat cavalier with your words here, and badly misrepresenting me. Is that deliberate?

[arewethereyet]

I think you are beating a dead horse. And I don't think it's common for people to be told they are ugly. Who does that beyond schoolyard bullies?

I have been around a while. Surely longer than you have. I don't recall anyone I went to school with being called ugly. I know of some friends from high school who would get drunk and cry and call themselves ugly. I have three grown kids...one got some grief over a facial birthmark but mostly people grew out of that kind of behavior. Even with his birthmark, he didn't seem to have trouble getting dates with some pretty girls and is now in a long term relationship.

Three kids going through school and I didn't experience this sort of thing that you are so obsessed with.

If your issue is that you think you are ugly...don't project that onto others. If you were told on the regular that you are ugly then the people doing it were in the wrong. But it's not something that happens as often as you would like to say it does.

What I say tends to be deliberate in that I say what I mean and I mean what I say.


And ugly can be much more than appearance. Ugly does not equal incel and the reverse.

[FrustratedFool]

It's interesting you don't recall anyone in your school being called ugly. That may indeed reflect a generational difference. It was very common when I was at school. And is common now, especially on social media.

Some people don't have experiences like yours.

But I think that if you are meaning to say exactly what you say it doesn't matter. I think you are not reading my posts carefully or charitably. There's nothing I can say to that. I'm glad your children aren't ugly or experienced being called ugly or ostracised for their looks.

[arewethereyet]

It's interesting you don't recall anyone in your school being called ugly.  That may indeed reflect a generational difference.  It was very common when I was at school.  And is common now, especially on social media.

Some people don't have experiences like yours.

But I think that if you are meaning to say exactly what you say it doesn't matter.  I think you are not reading my posts carefully or charitably.  There's nothing I can say to that.  I'm glad your children aren't ugly or experienced being called ugly or ostracised for their looks.

I don't think you read carefully.  My son did get grief for a birthmark on his face.  Not a mole or a spot but a port wine stain.  We tried a few medical remedies that didn't work or would curtail his ability to play sports so he lost interest in the treatments.  

When I got his graduation pictures, the company took it upon themselves to edit out the birthmark.  That probably hurt him worse than anything because he was able to see what he would look like without the mark, had medical treatments been successful.  I had them reprint the pictures.  We had worked hard to make it not an issue and they nearly undid all the progress, mentally and emotionally, that we had made.  So yes, I do think some people get grief about their appearance.  But I don't think it's the all day everyday thing you make it out to be.

And all incels aren't such because they aren't cute.

[Foxaèr]

I don't remember if I had acne at the start of puberty, but at a certain point I really took notice of it and personally thought it made me unattractive. Granted, now I know better even though I continue to treat my skin as an adult.

One day, I saw this absolutely gorgeous guy. And guess what. His face was more riddled with acne than mine ever was. Yet his skin affliction did not seem to negatively affect him.

[FrustratedFool]

@arewethereyet
So we agree some people get grief for their appearance. And that this has psychological effects that need to be managed.

It's good we can at least agree on that.