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Why are you (still) a Christian?
#11
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 4, 2023 at 8:10 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Indeed.

But some are very scholarly and remain in the faith.  
I'm hoping there may be a well-read Christian on this forum who can give me an insight.

From what I can tell it comes down to fear(hell) and reward(heaven) which overrides their ability to reason.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#12
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
You assume such an ability exists?
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#13
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 4, 2023 at 4:26 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I can understand the various reasons that someone may convert, but I'm curious as to why someone would retain their belief after years of being a Christian and having spent time studying the bible and theology, looking at arguments for/against, and so on.

So, for those who have been a believing adult for more than 5 years, and who are feel they're conversant on the various arguments for/against, what is it that keeps you believing?  

Any particular philosophical positions, or specific events that happened, or a particular inner feeling or intuition, etc?

You're asking good and important questions, but I don't think you'll find anyone here who's willing to answer in a good way. It's understandable why intelligent Christians will take one look at the insults here and move on.

One of most intelligent, level-headed, and well-educated people I've ever known converted to Christianity while he was in graduate school. Last I heard he was a Catholic, teaching Ancient Greek philosophy in one of the top-ranked philosophy departments in the world. 

There may have been personal reasons I don't know about, but for the most part he was persuaded by philosophical arguments. 

Shortly after his conversion he posted on this forum briefly, but he was unable to find friendly discussions because people wanted to fight him so badly, and typed mostly insults, so he moved on. 

I knew another guy who was an economist in the Clinton White House, who was well-known for telling Larry Summers that Summers' policies would harm the country. He was right about that. After Bush replaced Clinton he got a job teaching at an elite school in Switzerland, because his wife had some kind of job in Geneva. He converted to Christianity at that point, because he was persuaded by arguments along the lines of those made by Martin Buber (though Buber was Jewish) and other recent theologians. There was a community of such people in Switzerland. The kind of Christianity he adopted is nothing like the kind which is discussed on this forum, with talking snakes and angry sky-daddies. 

When I did my doctoral dissertation in the philosophy of art, I ended up writing about certain Christian artists, and how their theology determined their ways of making art. To my surprise I found that there are large areas of theology that are not only far better thought-out than the caricatures we usually hear about, but appealing in a human way. I've never been a Christian, and in fact never been inside a church unless it was to look at the art. But I think we have to keep in mind that other people know things that we don't, and have good reasons for what they do. 

So again, I think it's great that you're asking the question, but I think no answers will be forthcoming in this place.
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#14
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
Quote:Belief perseverance (also known as conceptual conservatism) is maintaining a belief despite new information that firmly contradicts it. Such beliefs may even be strengthened when others attempt to present evidence debunking them, a phenomenon known as the backfire effect (compare boomerang effect). For example, in a 2014 article in The Atlantic, journalist Cari Romm describes a study involving vaccination hesitancy. In the study, the subjects expressed their concerns of the side effects of flu shots. After being told that the vaccination was completely safe, they became even less eager to accept them. This new knowledge pushed them to distrust the vaccine even more, reinforcing the idea that they already had before.

Wikipedia || Belief perseverance
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#15
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
Meant for Bel.  

^Since your opinion of the members here is so damn low, why do you remain?  Is this the only place you can feel superior?
  
“If you are the smartest person in the room, then you are in the wrong room.” — Confucius
                                      
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#16
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
Many Christians stay Christian because they are addicted to hate.

And, of course, many are Christians because they never question their religion and have been groomed never to question it.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#17
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
An object at rest remains at rest, and an object in motion remains in motion at constant speed and in a straight line unless acted on by an unbalanced force.
[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]
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#18
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 4, 2023 at 5:05 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: But not every serious Christian de-converts.  And I'm curious as to why.

The vast majority don't. Change is difficult, and elicits fear, so most people avoid it where possible. They'd rather not think about it.

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#19
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
I once knew this guy, who knew this girl, who knew those other girl, who was related to a guy who knew a guy that dated this girl who's father was a bus driver, and one of his regular passengers knew an athiest, and they said the athiest was the most rightest, correctest, smartererest, unlying person they had ever known.

So there you have it. Atheists are good people, and really smart and never ever lie.
Ask anything you want.
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#20
RE: Why are you (still) a Christian?
(September 4, 2023 at 4:26 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: I can understand the various reasons that someone may convert, but I'm curious as to why someone would retain their belief after years of being a Christian and having spent time studying the bible and theology, looking at arguments for/against, and so on.

So, for those who have been a believing adult for more than 5 years, and who are feel they're conversant on the various arguments for/against, what is it that keeps you believing?  

Any particular philosophical positions, or specific events that happened, or a particular inner feeling or intuition, etc?

I'll say a little more about this, because I don't think any Christians will be answering.

When we talk about Christianity on this forum, we almost invariably talk about the believability of various propositions or arguments. "I'll believe when I've seen testable evidence," is a common refrain. 

I do not think that most Christians believe in this way. That's not how they approach it. 

Belief, remember, comes in two types. Type #1: "I believe in Santa Claus" or "I believe the earth is round" is intellectual assent to a proposition. But Type #2: "I believe in women's rights" is different. It is commitment to an ideal. In fact believing in women's rights, in the first sense of the word "believe," would be foolish, because currently women don't have equal rights in many places. Believing in equal rights would be like believing in Santa Claus. But commitment to the ideal of women's rights is a good thing. 

In my experience many Christians believe in Jesus in the second sense -- as commitment to an ideal. They may not have stated it that way, but that's how it works in practice. 

So for example I know three Japanese families who are all Christian. All of them are doctors, nurses, or hospital workers. For them, Christianity is a framework and lifestyle of commitment to charity. It is an ideal of selflessness which they found in Christianity and nowhere else. 

One couple I knew set up the Japanese branch of the International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War, which went on to win the Nobel Prize. He was from Hiroshima and she was from Nagasaki. 

Christian groups in Japan set up the first kindergartens and the first women's colleges, back when Japan had never heard of those things. Japan just didn't have charitable organizations of this type in its history, so still in people's minds such things are associated with Christianity. 

I once had the bad manners to ask one of these Christians if they thought the world had been created in six days. She had clearly never thought about it before. She said, "Well, I guess." The arguments for the truth of theological propositions were absolutely irrelevant to her religion. 

I know some Americans like this too, but I've gone on long enough.
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