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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 2:06 pm
OP, I will prove to you that Odin AllFather and Cyril the Space Wombat exist (two for one) clearly, concisely, and leaving absolutely no room for doubt.
But not all are worthy of the knowledge.
So, since I don't want some creepy newb messaging me, I'm not going to tell you.
But I COULD...
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 2:22 pm
(April 5, 2025 at 1:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (April 5, 2025 at 12:57 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: I'm a theist because I believe there is more evidence in favor of theism than not. There is no proof beyond at best a preponderance of evidence. There is no proof for either claim that would withstand proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Whether a theist or atheist there is room for doubt of either claim. There is evidence in favor of either claim (though atheists never admit this).
(Bold mine)
I disagree. I have no doubt that gods do not exist. I may be wrong, but I’m not uncertain.
Boru
I'm a theist but I'm not 100% sure. How can anyone be certain how a universe that caused intelligent life to exist was caused inadvertently by mindless natural forces? Do we 'know' such forces alone could do that? Do we know they did do that? Where does your certainty come from?
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 2:44 pm
(This post was last modified: April 5, 2025 at 2:44 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(April 5, 2025 at 2:22 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: (April 5, 2025 at 1:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (Bold mine)
I disagree. I have no doubt that gods do not exist. I may be wrong, but I’m not uncertain.
Boru
I'm a theist but I'm not 100% sure. How can anyone be certain how a universe that caused intelligent life to exist was caused inadvertently by mindless natural forces? Do we 'know' such forces alone could do that? Do we know they did do that? Where does your certainty come from?
Whether God exists has nothing to do the evolution of intelligent life.
Yes, we know that.
My certainty comes from the grindingly, creakingly, crashingly obvious mountain of evidence that there is no place in a natural universe for a supernatural Overseer.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 2:54 pm
In my experiences over several decades, I will say that if the Chrisian god or Jesus or whatever name you choose exist(s), they suck at that loving us part. It's an abusive relationship at best. I have been cutting abusers out of my life a long time and god/Jesus was the first one to go.
I'm your huckleberry.
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 3:03 pm
(April 5, 2025 at 1:47 pm)Alan V Wrote: Atheists usually say that what theists take as evidence is better explained as evidence supporting atheism.
I have yet to hear these explanations. Take the existence of the universe that caused stars, planets, solar system, galaxies, and a planet like earth and to cause intelligent life to exist. I think it occurred because right from the start it was headed in the direction of a planet like earth existing. We know now that is far from a sure fire given.
Quote:But think of what you are saying.
Theists prey on people's doubts to get them to believe. Atheists point out such doubts as the reason why a lack of belief should be the default.
You think this is a zero sum game, its not. They're ramifications to atheism. If the theistic belief is, it was intentionally caused by design if false, then it was unintentionally caused by accident. Why should we not question that narrative? Does something that was caused unintentionally come with the laws of physics and properties of time and space that cause intelligent beings to exist? And then upon coming into being humans began to realize the universe is knowable and can be explained with a great deal of mathematics. Should we have expected that from forces that didn't care if we existed? Why?
Quote:the kind of God theists typically claim to exist really exists (all-powerful, all-knowing, perfectly good, worthy of worship), it should be obvious to almost everyone. Proof would not be needed at all, any more than for the claim that the sun shines.
We're in luck then, I'm a theist who believes the universe was intentionally caused for the purpose of creating intelligent beings such as humans and certainly possible, many more civilizations.
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 3:12 pm
(April 5, 2025 at 2:44 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (April 5, 2025 at 2:22 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: I'm a theist but I'm not 100% sure. How can anyone be certain how a universe that caused intelligent life to exist was caused inadvertently by mindless natural forces? Do we 'know' such forces alone could do that? Do we know they did do that? Where does your certainty come from?
Whether God exists has nothing to do the evolution of intelligent life.
Yes, we know that.
My certainty comes from the grindingly, creakingly, crashingly obvious mountain of evidence that there is no place in a natural universe for a supernatural Overseer.
Boru
That's a theological reason. How do you know what it takes to cause a universe to exist? The only thing we have to go on at this time is what happened after the universe began to exist. And what happened was a shitload of things to cause a planet like earth to exist. I don't have a problem with evolution. Its all the things necessary for their to be such a nice planet like earth. For instance the earlier universe didn't come with the ingredients such as carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, and sulfur necessary for life and the material for rocky planets to exist.
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 3:18 pm
(April 5, 2025 at 2:22 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: (April 5, 2025 at 1:53 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (Bold mine)
I disagree. I have no doubt that gods do not exist. I may be wrong, but I’m not uncertain.
Boru
I'm a theist but I'm not 100% sure. How can anyone be certain how a universe that caused intelligent life to exist was caused inadvertently by mindless natural forces? Do we 'know' such forces alone could do that? Do we know they did do that? Where does your certainty come from?
How can you be certain of something you admit you may be wrong? Isn't the whole basis of this debate is whether the universe and our existence was intentionally caused or the result of happenstance. At the very least fortuitous happenstance right?
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 3:24 pm
(April 5, 2025 at 2:54 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: In my experiences over several decades, I will say that if the Chrisian god or Jesus or whatever name you choose exist(s), they suck at that loving us part. It's an abusive relationship at best. I have been cutting abusers out of my life a long time and god/Jesus was the first one to go.
You had an abusive relationship with an imaginary being? I agree I always let my imaginary abusers go first.
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 3:28 pm
(April 5, 2025 at 3:18 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: How can you be certain of something you admit you may be wrong? Pretty easily. Every single thing you think you know occupies this space.
Quote:Isn't the whole basis of this debate is whether the universe and our existence was intentionally caused or the result of happenstance.
No.
Quote:At the very least fortuitous happenstance right?
No.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: I will prove to you that God exists
April 5, 2025 at 3:33 pm
(April 5, 2025 at 3:24 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: (April 5, 2025 at 2:54 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: In my experiences over several decades, I will say that if the Chrisian god or Jesus or whatever name you choose exist(s), they suck at that loving us part. It's an abusive relationship at best. I have been cutting abusers out of my life a long time and god/Jesus was the first one to go.
You had an abusive relationship with an imaginary being? I agree I always let my imaginary abusers go first.
Exactly - god is imaginary. I didn't realize it at first though.
You continue to think there is an imaginary being in charge of things.
It's a good thing you aren't trying to make people believe in your god.
I'm your huckleberry.
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